Salon Rising: The Podcast

Transcript 

Am I surviving or am I thriving? Yeah. And it was like understanding, okay, this is what I need to do to survive. This is where I need to be to thrive. So what's happening in between that, where am I at? When one day, when I finally get on top of things, you're not getting on top of things unless someone teaches you how to get on top of it.

I've been, I talked to a lot of business coaches in my. Partnerships role.  And a lot of them all say that people come and get a coach when their business is failing.  Yeah. Why did you wait till the end? Correct. Correct.  And I think if I could tell my younger self,  I would have got a coach when I started.

You want to thrive instead of just surviving, you have to make change. There has to be, and someone generally needs to teach it to you. It's okay if you're not doing well in your business. Yeah, a lot of people are not. In your own little room, in your bubble. It can be really isolating if you don't have those.

communities and connections and support. If you assess it, if you know how to push it, you know how to change it. That's what makes massive, the 1%, 2%, 3 percent changes in those things is what's overall in a 12 month period going to change everything. The average solo business lasts  18 months. Wow. And it's the part of where hairdressers are moving into.

They all want to work for themselves. They all want to have freedom. They want to do their thing. Right. What are you doing to understand how to run your business  and learn those tools? There's two things that still scare me in this industry. I'm not ready for this. 

Hey lovers, just a quick one. If you listen to us and you love us, could you please hit that subscribe button? I know it's a pain, but that little button means the world to us and our podcasts and means that we can get. More great guests on like we know you guys love listening to. So  do a girl a favor, hit subscribe, and we would be so grateful. 

Welcome back to the Inner Sanctum Salon Rising, the podcast. Good morning, Sam. Hey, how are you? Excellent. This is our final final recording for the year. Oh my goodness. It's so wild. I was reflecting on it last night as even I feel like since we did the final episode, like the one that we're going to have our final.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. I think so much has happened since then. Yeah. Um, but I think You know, 2024 has obviously been a huge year, but I'm, I'm really ready for 2025. Yeah. And I'm just ready for the development of 2025. Yeah. In saying that we'll get to 2025 and we'll be like, Oh,  it's like a rollercoaster all over again.

Why do we do this? Why do we, why do we want a new year?  But, um, yeah, I'm ready for, I just feel like there's a lot of evolvement in our industry. For sure. And I'm, I'm excited to see where this year goes, but also have never felt more calm in just going with the flow with it either. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's been, it's been an unstable 12 months for the industry.

I feel like it's been really, and we'll speak into this with our special guest in a minute, but, um, yeah. Yeah, I feel like everyone that we speak to is going into 2025 with this  sense of excitement about where that might be going. Yeah. And I think for me, more so than ever, I've not been more focused on just my own journey.

Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think, I think that is the important space. Um, and especially a lot of the young artists that are coming through, it's, you know, how can you. Get back in your own in your own journey journey and back in your own space And and what does it entail for you to be back in that because you know The young artists that are coming through is social media is all they know.

We know a life before social media Yeah,  and so, you know, I think more than ever it's you know How can you pull out and get back into your own journey and stop? I'm not focusing on what's outside of you and what are the things that you can do to bring you back into your business and bring you back into calm and peace and, and to just travel your own journey, rather than feeling like you need to travel anyone else's, which is so appropriate for the guests that we have today.

So we are joined by the beautiful Sherri from Timely. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming up to see us. It's so nice that you've flown up here to be on the pod with us today. And Sherri had like, when we had our conversation about what we were going to talk about on the pod, it was really about the journey, right?

Like it's about that journey, the story and perhaps the stories that we tell ourselves. So we're going to do a quick backstory into how we came into each other's lives, which, um, happened so, um, Serendipitously, really, it was wild. We had  just been following on socials. I had just bought the salon. Nobody wanted to have me as a client when it came to software.

And I just sent you a DM one day, like Sherri, help me. I don't know what to do. Should I do this? It's so funny. I did not know where you were at until last night you posted the gift vouchers. And I was like, Oh. So timely. Yeah. I didn't know that. And it was a hell of a journey. And I was like, also, I need to be doing this.

Thank you, Jen, for the reminder.  Um.  But yeah, I'm even interested like, cause I don't know all of these things. Anyone that says, Oh, Jen's your best friend, you see her all the time. I can't tell you the last time Jen and I actually hung out. It was at our retreat and we spoke until three in the morning, but we don't actually, we're like passing ships in the night more so than ever at the moment, because life is so busy with both salons and Salon Rising, everything and families that it is. 

There's a lot of stuff we find out on the pod. I didn't know that. Yeah. So that was, I had, um, I had looked into so many different options and none of them were kind of suitable for what I needed and nobody just really wanted to help. And you were just like, I'm going to help. And, and you really did. It was so amazing.

It's like, I'm going to help. And I'm going to send you this person and everyone you sent me was so helpful and it really, yeah. was a light. I remember saying to that, it's like, you have literally been a light and it's been a really shitty journey. Thank you. Thank you for helping me. And then ironically, the next week, I was like, Hey, I think you're going to be on the board. 

So it was really because again,  we don't always get to talk about these things. So it was a really, lovely introduction to you and what you do.  Um, but when we were talking, because I don't think people realize, I know you have this,  um,  label aSherriry from Timely, but  I think it would be really cool to talk about who is Sherri from Timely.

Who is Sherri from Timely and how did she get here? Because your, your journey is so  interesting and so.  insightful. I think loads of people will get a lot out of it.  Thank you. Thank you.  Who is Sherri? Well,  let's start. So I think one thing I want to know is I think a lot of hairdressers and beauty therapists kind of look at software like it's really scary and that it's just this big, scary, you know, tech company as such, but, you know, me being part of Timely and being Sherri from Timely is I come from the industry.

Yeah, I've been in the hair industry for 20 years. I counted that a couple of months ago, actually. I had to really think about it and I was putting actually something together for some content and I was piecing together a bit of my journey and it was really beautiful to sit back and reflect on how it all started and I was also thinking really this morning, uh, about a bit of my journey and my parents never wanted me to be a hairdresser.

Oh yeah, same. My dad actually, uh, said to me, you know, hairdressing is not a smart, smart job. You need to finish year 12 and make sure that you have a good end to score, you know, and I disregarded that and went in and started my hairdressing apprenticeship. And from then on, I've just kind of, you know, worked in salons.

I managed 32 salons at one stage. I worked for product companies and then, you know, decided I'm going to go out on my own. Let's do it. And did I learn a lot? I think  there's this part of you that says your ego is like, yeah,  I'm a business owner.  Oh my God. Let's do it.  Easy. I'm going to kill it. Just look at me being a boss lady.

Yeah. Boss.  And I think when I did that, it was the hustle culture too. It's like work hard. Overtime for all your clients in, uh, put bums on seats, just go, go, go, go, go. And I burnt myself out massively. But I mean, there's also that element because when you opened your salon, you opened your salon in a completely new city that you had never lived in, that you had no clients in, that you then had to pay for.

Yeah. Yeah. So I suppose at some point you've got to put bums on seats, right? But it's like, uh, and I've said this before, I fucking hate the word balance. But there's got to be a little bit of balance. Yeah. I think we've said that quite a few times. We hate the word balance. I think there is merit to it. I think the idea of like, and we've always said,  I don't like the fact that hustle gets a bad name and a bad rap because I actually think there's points where you do have to hustle, there's days where like, I am, I'm on a hustle day today.

You are, you are every spare minute is hustle. I napped for like two hours yesterday. It was amazing. But it's just where I think. There is that you have  the word balance gets a bad rap because people like how do you get the balance? I'm like no two people have the same balance Yeah, it's what they need and what where they need to go, but I think and it's your situation at the time Yes, you start to learn and again at this time of year as  Um, business owners and, and artists more than ever,  personally, you have to learn also how to put the brakes on, like, because we're so busy that I think a lot of the burnout also comes from the fact that we put pressure on ourselves to do everything, all the Christmas stuff's happening.

So, you know, all the Christmas events and all the things you have to do and all the Christmas parties and you actually have to, and I did that yesterday, Jen went to one of our close friends, like, she went. With all our close friends to, um, lunch and I just was like, I, I just, even though it kills me to say, I'm just like, I, I'm, it's a no from me.

I cannot make it. I am working on no energy. And I slept. I need to have a two hour nap. And I did and it was good for me because I can actually get up and get back into this week. Otherwise I would be burnt out. So I think it's interesting that both of those words. People put hustle and balance. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure on the words hustle and balance, right?

Because it has they have both had bad raps because it just depends on where you're at I think the really important thing is is taking an overhaul and look Of your entire life and, and realizing where that's sitting because if you look, like you said, I burnt myself out, but if you looked at it from the overhaul, you were like, I was probably burning the candle at every end and  thinking that that was the only way that I was going to make it through.

How far into it do you think you started to feel that burnout?  I'm going to say about a year into it. Yeah. I think  the pressure,  I mean, we, I thrive off pressure and that we, you know, that understanding of hustle and balance, right? Yeah. The hustle is a good thing because it kicks you up the butt to keep going.

And then the balance needs to kick in when you realize and you recognize what it is that you're not going to be able to keep going. Exactly. I think it's your body knowing when your body is in constant fight or flight is when I think it's not necessarily the hustle. It's knowing when you're in fight.

Yeah. 24 7 that you realize you need to come down from that and whether that's anxiety, whether where that's sitting, normally it's an, an, uh, I reckon when you're sitting like that, it's an imbalance of where your mental health sitting as well, because that's why the word hustle gets such a bad rap because by that point it's not so much hustle, it's you're in constant fight or flight to try and keep yourself going.

Yeah. Moving, you know, going from, you know, hustling where we're really good at doing that. And when we have all the balls in the air, it's amazing to all of a sudden, like  I am in full on fight or flight. I can't sleep. I can't breathe. There's too many things happening and you can feel the difference. You can feel how it feels different in your body.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it was like. Yeah. Absolutely. I always think of the, you know, am I surviving or am I thriving? Yeah. Yeah. And it was like understanding, okay, this is what I need to do to survive. This is where I need to be to thrive. So what's happening in between that, where am I at and having not one client. 

And spending a lot of money on a fit out. So where were you living? Sydney. Okay. So you moved to Sydney?  I lived in Melbourne, grew up in Melbourne and just decided at 25, bored, just moved to Sydney. My best friend was moving. Oh yeah, let's go.  And you know, along came the journey and then sort of ended up in this position where I was like,  Found this really cool space.

Ah, this will be easy. And then it's like, Oh, okay.  Again, fixated on a lot of things of fit out. Yeah.  It's so funny because we're going to talk about your fit out. And, and you're, it's like, we need to call the pod that. Don't spend money on, don't spend fucking money on a fit out. Which is interesting considering that we just finished a podcast.

We literally just spoke about it. We just finished a podcast with  One of my close girlfriends, and she talks about the importance of not doing all of that, just starting very small and very basic. Where was she about?  Because now she has that. Where was she when you were buying those vintage hats? She now then built up and she has this beautiful salad with this amazing fit out now.

Yes. But I understand this because I almost did the same thing when I first went out on my own. I almost.  Did the same thing and I would have gone under within the first couple of months. Yeah. Without a doubt. So you didn't go under, which is great. No, no. You paid off those vintage tabs. Okay. So let's go.

Let's talk into it. Okay. So the, so the Renault, go. So you found this space. 1890s heritage house. Yeah. Amazing. Oh, wow. Where in Sydney? In Parramatta. Okay. So this is early stages of Parramatta where it was  not the most, there was no one charging premium services. Yeah. So again, I went with a big risk, like, let's, let's go in, let's have premium services.

The barbershop in the front, there was a tailor attached and then also a cafe. So, I was like, odds, uh, let's just go. Um, and, um, Yeah,  lots of very expensive woods and vintage taps and because again at 25 I did it at  23 I think you just like you're not actually  Thinking about all of the things that actually like you're like, oh, yeah I want all of these things and you're like it's gonna cost like 30 grand really and it's not it's like  150 grand.

You know what I mean? Like you had no concept at that point of how much it's actually going to cost you to fit something else. Absolutely. No concept at all. Like zero concept. No, no idea. Yeah. Just had an idea of what it needed to look like and  backed myself, back myself so much that I was like, I know my worth.

I know I can do this, which is, you know, a great thing to kind of have that behind you. but then in reality when those doors opened that first day.  I don't have anyone in here. Launch day.  Shit.  What am I going to do?  And I did some crazy things. I went out on the street, we did haircuts on the street.

Council told us off.  Opened without a, um, a permit. Oh. Permit was going to take too long. I was like, fuck it, let's just open.  And I just knew that if I invited all of everyone from the council to get their hair done.  Someone was going to give you your permit? Well, they can't shut me down if I'm doing. Good work.

I'm bringing, it's like a, it's part of the community. Right.  And I forgot about the permit. So  went on for a long time with no permit  and just got people in and I.  built pretty much the whole business on Instagram. And that was kind of early days of influences as well. You're welcome to anybody who's now going in the street and has Instagram because believe you and me back in the day when we didn't have Instagram, that shit was so much harder.

It was sure. Totally, totally like I think back early on in my hairdressing apprenticeship, Watching my boss build that business, you know,  the flyers, the word of mouth, the, all of those kinds of things. It was a slower process. Whereas now Instagram, it's like, you can promote that you have a free appointment, you can fill your book.

You can, you don't have to go and walk the streets and say, does anyone want their hair cut? Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, I DM'ed so many people. I was searching cafe locations to see who had like 5, 000 followers and up.  inviting people to have their hair done. I would then just fill my day full of models from like Gumtree just to get content and just started rolling.

Cause I was like, if someone's just sitting in this, this is good hustle. Yeah, that is good hustle. Yeah. Cause instead of sitting there twiddling my thumbs, it's like, let's just fill the salon. And if. That, that's better than having an empty space. I actually listened to that once. Jay Edwards was talking about the fact that he never, he doesn't want an empty salon ever.

So he will give people, like, Free stuff to have people sitting there. Free stuff to have the salon look busy. And, you know, so he creates obviously all his content through that. But he was like, I don't want a salon looking dead. I want it looking pumping. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, that is definitely something that, that worked.

And then they ended up becoming clients. Because they were so happy and they were local to the area. That's why I sort of did the cafe. Because Instagram used to have this feature where you could go to a location and you could kind of search,  like, the actual location and the people that had, like, tagged it.

I think you probably still can, it just looks different now, but I would just filter through that. And, And then I'd invite them back and then they just started rolling. And then the other thing that really worked well was like the Google reviews.  And I know that sounds like, they still work. It's a huge, huge, huge thing that I talk about.

It works every goddamn day. Your Google reviews make a huge difference.  And I am so passionate about it. So am I, because it was something that I didn't realize.  And it wasn't until I think someone must've said something to me and I was like, Oh yeah, that's a really great idea.  I was a timely customer as well then.

And so I realized I could set up this automated message. It would then send to them after they would leave and then they would leave me a Google review. And within about a month people were, Oh, I've read your Google reviews.  Oh, what a great Google review. And  when you're one on one. with your clients like that,  the relationship you build is just so different, right?

It's like they, they literally became family and they knew  where I was at and they were just so grateful for the space and the service and everything. We say it now when they're in, we realize now when they're in even we're like, Can you write a review right now, like right, right now, right, why are you, why are you, hey, why are you here?

You have to write us a review because we didn't do that for so long and you'd send the things out. People just get busy. Yeah. Like people do get busy. You'll have people definitely that will read it and be like perfect. And especially when it's automated and you don't have to think about it. But also if you've got those clients that are sitting in your chair that have been 10 years, five years, they're like your best mate, they come in, you just feel like your family.

And you just be like, Yo, where you sitting here? Can you do a review? Because I do that now, because I'm like, I know they love me, and I know it's not, it's just they're busy. Yeah. So if I'm sitting someone, someone's like, can you write me a rev? If I leave a place, I'm like this. Now, if I've had really good service, I do it the minute I walk out of it.

Yeah, same. I'm like, otherwise I'll forget. Or if someone asked me to write them a review, I always think, yes, I need to get to it, but it, it goes on my to-do list because it's not important in that. But someone's sitting in your chair and they're your every like, they're your rides and dies. Just, oh, someone's just finished a hair and they're like, they're literally frothing.

They love it so much. Ask them to write a review because it makes the biggest difference and not just five star it but actually write why they love your business. Because that's what brings in the right type of people to your business. Like, people will read some of our reviews and be like, this sounds not for me.

It sounds like too kumbayari. They all love each other too much. Um, whereas other people will read it and be like, this is exactly what I need. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. It's a really good point that you just made. Now, when, when you're speaking about doing it immediately, I think back then it wasn't immediate, but I think now if you are setting up your Google reviews.

Um, definitely immediately makes sense for a lot busier than say five years ago. So yeah, that's really valuable, but yeah, what a journey, like those Google reviews. And then it just started building  and it was a challenge. 100%. Was it always just you?  We had barbers. Yep. And that was also another challenge.

Yeah. Because there was no qualified barbers. Oh yeah. 'cause that industry has changed so much in the last much. Yeah. Yeah. Even like five years I reckon it has really gone to a whole different place. Mm-hmm . Yeah. Even for addresses, like, it's just like we don't do guys like we used to. No. Unless you have done your barbering.

Unless, yeah. We just don't like,  yeah. I just, even for me, I'm like, I can't.  Cut like they do, like I, but we give it a different flavor. Hairdressers give men's hair cuts a different flavor to what barbers can as well. Yeah, absolutely. You know, they can fade like nobody else's, but I'm real good at chipping in

So it's one of those things like, again, that has flipped our industry as well. Yeah. Because you know, it's not as male prominent either, because a lot of the males wanna go to a bar male barber too. And I found that, 'cause we had two rooms. So it was like an old house, the front room was the barber, the other room was the, the lady section as such. 

And, you know, I obviously tried to pick up the skills because I was, you know, I've got to learn, I've got to take over some of these clients. And I was like, yeah, this is easy. Like, fading's so easy. I struggled and I'm a good hair cutter. I come from a very good cutting background. And I was like, I had a whole different new respect for barbers. 

And the way that they service their clients, it was a whole huge eye opener. But yeah, trying to find qualified barbers  was also like, I couldn't believe it. It was like, Oh my God, there's a big gap. Now it's, it's definitely changed. You can go do barbering, which is amazing. But watching them do the same clients as well, like they were coming, our men were coming in weekly  and they wanted the same time every week,  exactly every week. 

And that was a, that was phenomenal to see men coming in every week at the same time. It's like when men say like, I can't believe that women spend so much. I'm like, mate, you're spending 50 bucks, like 50, 60 bucks every two weeks. Yeah. They're coming in every 12. You're spending more. Pipe down.  And that helped balance out a bit of the business too, because I think.

seeing, I was attracting a very young clientele.  So again, filling the book for regular clients, you know, everyone's lived in, balayage was soft. I had no gray haired clients that were that bread and butter that were like every, you know, four weeks. Yeah. So that became a challenge in itself too.  And I kept thinking anymore gray haired clients.

That was such a bizarre thought process at the time, but I was like, how do I get,  Grey hair clients,  getting people to bring their mom in or their family. And we're just starting those conversations to kind of feel those consistent appointments, even though we educate, come back in, you know, for your color touch up in between. 

Still, if you've done a really good job, which we want to do right. And their color is still looking amazing. 12 weeks later, you're like,  come on. Yeah, I need to pay the bills. Yeah. Yeah. So it  was, it was,  as we're speaking about it, just reminiscing of those times, it was, it was challenging, but incredible, like learnt so much about myself.

So you were a timely customer  and then when, so how long did you have your salon for?  Three years. Three years? What? Sold it. So tell us how you came to that decision, that pinnacle. What happened? Yeah, massive. So  I got over being in Sydney. I look at my time in Sydney as I worked really hard, but all my family were in Melbourne.

I had nephews, everyone was, you know, growing.  getting older  and I thought I'm either going to spend another 10 years here  or  I keep building and keep focusing and building a business  because Sydney's a very hard place to live. It's, it's a challenging place. It's, it's expensive. So it was like, all right, we either Get the business to a point and we, we move on, or I just keep staying here and not really enjoying myself a hundred percent. 

And you know, you're working Saturdays, your Mondays are like your admin day, even though the salon's closed and then you're just working and it's just not really a good work life balance I found. And it was really hard to find a good network there. And I was. Really getting myself out there. I was going to lots of different networking events.

There was this really cool place in Sydney called Fishburners where they have a lot of startup businesses. And I love business. I'm obsessed. I think I get so fascinated by business and the way people move and do things. And so I would show up at all these different events.  Sometimes I get clients, um, or I collab or, you know, meet someone who's a photographer and we do fun stuff.

So that's how I kind of kept the energy going and to also keep you creative because when you're in that, when you walk into your salon, you almost turn into  salon owner mode and here do my clients,  where do you get the creativity outside of that, having conversations with people, connection, all of those things.

So you have to really like. Pull yourself out of the safety net of your business  and Connect and meet new people. But then I, I realized, all right, I've got to get back to Melbourne.  So  I realized very early on that I probably should have definitely got my, the council approval on the 

selling a business that is not  council approved. Not a vibe,  not a good idea. Also knowing how much you spend on your fit out and you're still  Kind of paying that off and that no one cares that your vintage touts that you paid like 500 for aren't really worth anything.  So I was like, wow, this is a whole other challenge.

Also, that at that point you're like,  Uh, I remember was going I was gonna sell the business when I was pregnant with Alabama and you're like, yeah It's worth this much money. It's not worth Shit, like, but you've just decided because it's your business, so valuable. Like, you're like, it's worth like, you know, a couple of hundred thousand.

You're like, it's in 40, 000 worth of debt, babe. Like, I don't know what you're valuing, but you, because you built it, it's your baby. You're like, no, it's successful. It's valued. Absolutely. Absolutely. The conversation I had with myself and I realized it wasn't worth anything. I'd built it around me, you know, and it was like, what do I do?

So I went to the barber  and came back to Melbourne with my tail between my legs. Pretty much felt like I'd been the biggest failure. Um, and I think there was a lot, I went through a pretty dark stage where I just felt like this is, this is terrible. And I grew up like my,  my dad owned businesses. So I saw him as a very big entrepreneur, very like very dominant male, uh, watch mom kind of follow those footsteps, but then they split  and then he took everything from her.

So  I had this  story in my head that it was like.  You don't ever fail.  And my dad would always used to say those words to us as kids.  As you,  I just want to say this to you because none of that story, did I hear any failure and interesting enough, I know you hear it now, but as I heard your story and in none of, I was like, I'm so inspired by the things that you did and how you moved and people don't do that anymore that I'm like,  in none of that.

And if anyone is listening to this, all of the things that you do is what people should be doing when they build a business. Like, if you're going to go out on all of those things, those networks, I was like, I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. Like I am inspired by what you did in that business.

And I think had you  stayed in it, you would have been  wildly successful, but it is 100 percent yes, you can. But making the choice to do that. To make a change and take a step away is not a failure. No, and I understand that. You understand that now. The other thing I want to ask you too,  before we move on to that, because it was clicking over in my head as you were saying it. 

At that point, did you have no idea what you were doing financially and how to build a business? With the finances? Or were you actually really savvy on it? When I left or as you were going through the business, did you know how to put your taxes away? No. No, I didn't. Yeah. Okay. So I think ev, I think you did every single thing, right?

The only thing you could have had was someone to a coach, a council permit. Like a permit.  Yes, that's real. That's real important, but potentially someone to teach you the business side of it, because I think we do all of the things to get the clients in.  But exactly like me, I did exactly what you did, I then didn't know how to do the business, the money side of the business.

And if you don't know how to do the money side of your business, like we will say over and over again, Jen, I will say, that will be your downfall to everything because you, it's all good and well to have the money coming in, but if you don't know what to do with the money or how to put the money into other places,  because otherwise we just think that's all our money.

And that's what I did for a long time.  100 percent and it wasn't actually until a friend of mine who dear friend said to me, do you know what you're doing  with your money?  Spending it. Yeah. Duh.  I'm buying shit. Buying stuff. Cause I was attached to.  the idea of having the business and looking like I had money.

Successful, yeah. Looking successful. And it was like, so wrong. So wrong when I look at it back on it because it was We all start in ego, though. And I think the ego is almost what pushes us to be successful in the beginning. We all have to start. When we're, especially when you're that young, it's always starting in ego.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I remember my friend saying to me one day,  Are you just,  do you know what you're doing with your money?  Not really.  I said, I can look at my reports and I was good at that. So  I would bring up my reports. I knew exactly where my rebookings needed to be. I knew I could sell retail with my eyes closed.

I could do all those things. So I knew how to make the money, but then, but then what do you know what we're doing with keeping the money and  like, what was profit and where to put everything I was not doing any of that. Yeah. And.  You know going back now in this like present time in my life about superannuation.

Yeah  Please bring this up and say it over and over again sisters. If you're not paying yourself superannuation and knew it and Newation thank you Then you should be say that word ten times in your head and do something about it because as you said Yes, you know might not feel like a big deal ten years back, but ten years of that compounding you'll be like  shit Yes, uh oh Yeah, that's me now.

Like, being a, you know,  late 30 year old trying to figure out what my future looks like when I retire. You thinking about that now? I wish I had a thought about that, you know, late 20s.  Okay, so go, I'm sorry, I just found that. I was like, I need to tell you, A, you did so good and B, I needed to work out the money side of it. 

As my brain's turning over. So can you, I want you to touch on your parents again, because I find this stuff so interesting. So touch on that again. Yeah. So, uh, Dad, heavy, you know, very big entrepreneur and, you know, growing up, seeing that lots of flashy things, always like a big spender and mom kind of following his lead.

And then they split.  How old were you? I was seven. Okay. Dad takes everything. Yeah. Mom's left with zero.  Zero.  Has a really bad accident, spends six years in hospital. Your mum did? Yep. How old were you at that time? The day that they broke up, I was, I was seven.  And so growing up for me, I had to be the adult.

Spent six years in hospital. Rehabilitation. Wow. Yeah.  Yeah. Who did you live with? Your dad? Lots of different people. Wow. Dad wasn't around. Whoa. Lots of different people. Yep. Yeah. So  I spent a lot of time just moving around.  Just being this kid, missing out on being a kid. Yeah. So, watching my mum struggle, like, struggle.

And so, you know,  her struggles also, I guess, kind of moving. I took all of that on board. Mm. You know, and I had to grow up really quickly. Yeah. Because I had to feel like I had to support her. I had to be an adult. So I missed out on a lot of kid. And you actually miss out on a lot of that development that will actually help you grow up.

Like you, in some senses, you become so mature and so grown up and others, you have completely missed getting that foundational learning of how to grow. Yeah. And be a grown up, you know. And you think, I'm like, man, Sadie's eight. She would. Yeah. That kid would. Something. Yeah. Yeah. That blows my mind. Yeah.

Yeah. And safety looked different, if that makes sense. Yeah. And  because you perceive at that point, dad was flashy, dad had all the money, dad was an entrepreneur. That's gonna be safety, that's gonna be success as I get older. Yeah. Correct. Yeah, correct. And so when I went into that journey of business, I took on what that looked like,  and I had to spend a lot of time understanding that and unpacking that. 

and understanding my money story. Yeah. And  it took a lot,  a lot of therapy  to unpack that and to be where I'm at now.  But yeah, it's,  you've got to unpack all of that. People, and people don't think they have it. I'm like, everyone has a money story. Everybody has it. Everybody's learned what they believe from somewhere.

From money, specifically, and from everything. Yeah. But there is, everyone has their own money stories based on their parents and  how they've been raised. And you know, it's terrifying as a parent because you're like, Oh my God, what am I instilling in you right now? But everybody has.  And it's whether how we develop them as parents, but how you develop is yourself that you're like, you know, being able to have these conversations with your children.

And, you know, like it, not feeling like money is such, can be such a dirty word and being able to instill, you know, the fact that, and, you know, even from you, your dad was like being a hairdresser is not going to be successful. You make no money out of it, you know, so  even from the beginning, you know, so I think those things and really, you know,  Like we were just talking to Bridget about it.

It's such, it's so crazy that the conversation before this was just so parallel to this because her mum's an accountant. Yeah. So she built this little business and built up to what she's got now because she was really strict and stringent on how she did it because she had a mum that was really good with money, you know, whereas,  you know, others of us weren't really taught.

We just watched and viewed. So we thought that's how we were to do it. And yeah, you know, it makes such a difference. I'm so interested to know then. What did you think of your father as a person?  Yeah. If you're aligning success to being like him, did you like him?  No. Yeah. But he was safe because he had things.

Yeah. So, 

he was safe.  Or what he had was safe, not necessarily he was safe, but what he had gave him safety, right? What he had was safe because, yeah.  Like, and when I say the word, when I say safe, it's because he had a home that I could go to sometimes  or his mum was all over the place. So that was the safety. So it was more like security, really.

Yeah. Yeah. Security. Security. Yeah. And you know, I just knew he was there, but he wasn't, if that makes sense. There was a very disconnected relationship massively. Um, and that's, yeah, there's, there's a huge disconnection there. But I, you know, one of the biggest pivotal points to me  forgiving my dad, right.

Because I think there was a lot of hatred there for a long time in terms of,  I started understanding where I was learning things from. And then I was like, God, this is not good. Yeah, this is not good. Like  I've got to rewire this.  I also, as you become an adult, you're like,  What the fuck? None of that should have happened.

Like, you just, the older you get to, the more you realise what you actually went through as a child and how.  Yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer, I talk about this, uh, my pain is now my purpose. Yes. It's something I really drive, a lot,  because. I actually heard that last night. Mmm, I like that. Um, I actually heard that last night, and it was,  Funny enough in a piece of scripture and it was just like,  Oh,  that's what allows us.

And we, we've always said it, like, it's what allows us to teach through  the hard things is what allows us, like you wouldn't be who you are being able to share this story and  give so much knowledge to other people. If your journey had have just been easy, correct, correct. And I think something that's always been really lovely being at timely is when I would talk to so many.

young hairdressers coming into the industry  and hearing about their goals and where they're at, and I can so relate to it. And I would connect to them on a different level.  And I would always laugh sometimes, uh, when I would be on a call. And sometimes my calls would go for 45 minutes because next minute I'm like, unpacking their trauma. 

And it's exactly what they needed. And it's exactly what they needed. And then, you know, maybe sometimes an hour and a bit would go by, but that for me, I would, that for me feels my cut to be able to share my own personal  experiences of like, Hey,  I've actually been there, babe. Yeah. You know, maybe rethink of that.

Rewire that a little bit. Yeah. You know? Okay. So you moved home from Sydney to Melbourne.  This is like a 7 hour podcast everyone because we're just going to keep going. 

So what did you do when you moved back to Melbourne? I, I came back to Melbourne, tail between my legs. It's absolutely petrified,  had to remove, basically changed my identity of who I thought I was. So I went and worked for a product company and loved it because I was just back out on the road and in salon connecting, meeting with clients, you know, doing all those really amazing, beautiful things.

And you also had such an amazing background. Again, the success that you didn't feel like was success at the time, but the fact that you've had it, it's, it's so such a. Um, incredible, um, piece, if you can have that in our industry when you understand headdresses and I understood that when I started  getting in salon and connecting with business owners, because straight away, it's like, Oh, you know, where I'm at walls down.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You get that. It's actually a superpower. We talk about this all the time. Yeah. People don't realize that that's going to be their superpower when they're dealing with people. Absolutely. And that's where I started to. Change and understand that that story that I had, you know, feeling like a failure, all of those kinds of things.

I was like, actually, no, this is awesome. Like I'm getting like these clients get me, they sell on owners, get me. This is so frigging awesome. And  that just really started to change that. And I think  the other beautiful thing was. spending a lot of time reflecting on everything and I, I'm a big reflector  and I always say, you know, life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forward.

Yes. Right. And so spending the time back around my family.  Are we all putting this shit down? Because it's all things I'm going to use, like Richard, write that down! So many, like, yeah That was, I like that a lot. Yeah, because if we don't understand the past, or our background, or that story that happened we actually can't keep pushing forward. 

And people get scared to live backwards.  But what they don't want to look back because they're worried about what they might say. Yeah. But it's like, this, what got you here? Absolutely. Yeah.  And so really spending time  going backwards, putting my story together, going on a big journey of healing and  knowing one, wanting to know what my legacy is in this next part of my life back in Melbourne really led me to, you know.

Just find connecting with good people, owning my story, owning who I was, sharing it, connect, you know, and that's it.  Now I'm, you know, I think it's been, I think I've been  back in Melbourne, maybe five years, I think now,  I have no sense of time.  Especially the last five years. It's been a weird five years.  It kind of just robbed us of time.

So how long have you been with Timely for now? Nearly three years with Timely. And what took you on to that journey? Yeah. So you were, were you, when you were working with a brand, were you a educator or a rep? I was doing both. Both? I did a dual role. Oh.  Again, doing both passions, I'm a creative, I'm a, at the end of the day, the core soul of who I am, I'm a hairdresser, hands down, I can talk it still, I love it, I still thrive on scrolling on Instagram and seeing the most beautiful work, and I don't think I can ever lose that, because I understand that DNA of a hairdresser through and through.

Mm hmm. And so for me, moving into starting at Timely,  I wanted to talk  about business differently and  the importance of understanding software and what it does for you.  And again, having that story of my own.  Understanding of, oh, reports, numbers, and then realizing sometimes I was scared to look at the numbers, petrified.

Oh, what the  Software is a vital part to your business. Vital. And it's there to be the backbone for you. It is like your little assistant that is there to help you. Yep. And so moving into You don't know how, what it, what it ever looks like. How do you push yourself? Yeah. Yeah. If you're You're working out, you're working, like, you're like, I'm going to get really fit.

You're going to see it based on what your body looks like. If you don't look at the background of it, how are you ever going to know that you're improving? It's the same with the figures. Your figures have to,  like, the figures are going to tell you everything you need to know. Where is your rebooking at?

Where is your retail at? Where is this at? Because when I'll say to somebody, like, where's your retail sitting? And they're like,  uh, I'm like, cool figure you haven't looked at. But if you look at. every single week. If you assess it, if you know how to push it, you know how to change it. That's what makes massive, the 1%, 2%, 3 percent changes in those things is what's overall in a 12 month period going to change everything.

100%. And you know, there's some really scary statistics out there.  Go.  The average life, the average solo business lasts 18 months. Wow. And so,  That again says we're moving in the solo space is that that is the The part of our business, right?  And it's the part of where hairdressers are moving into they all want to work for themselves They all want to have freedom.

They want to do their thing, but you know What are you doing to understand how to run your business  and learn those tools and we need because there's this assumption that  Oh, I'm just gonna make all this money Because they don't understand any of the numbers in the background stuff And we what it actually costs to have that and it's crazy when we do solo and we work with solo artists.

It's crazy you know, like people just go, well, I'm making this in a salon, so I'm just going to, I'll make that on my own. It's like, yeah, but like you don't have that concept of how much you're actually being paid. Yeah. When you work for somebody, when you have everything put back in, when you put four weeks holiday, two weeks sick leave, your wage, your tax, your super, all of the extra, all your commissions and bonuses, everything that you get out of that space.

Without having to pay for any of the stuff that you used in that space. It's huge, you know, so that even just that, when we first break down that people are like, I can't afford to pay myself this every single week. Cause you might have big weeks over Christmas where you thriving, but what happens when you take two weeks off after Christmas,  you know?

So it's like,  When  people go, I can't afford to break, pay myself that every week. I'm like, well, that's why you're going backwards. Because you're paying, you're giving yourself that. And you're putting anything else away and you're never, and people are like, oh my fucking god, I don't know if I'm, and that's why it lasts 18 months.

Because, you know, I think there's this huge thing of like being just, not working for someone, not working for someone, not working for someone. But at the end of the day, I think, There's always going to be like and I think but you are still working for someone you're working for yourself You still have to work for you.

You still have to work I think salon owners think it's just gonna go that way and it won't because people are there is Definitely people the amount of people that don't want to work like that. Yeah They don't want to work the way that we work as business owners and they are The people that we need to be inside our businesses and to take care of so that they want to just do you know They we take care of them and our business can thrive and they don't have to do all of the extra shit But I think it's this interesting thing that I think it's full.

I totally agree I think there will always be a place for both. Yeah, I think we have to be aware of Ignoring  That this is happening because there are businesses and companies that are ignoring that it's happening. I experienced that.

It's like, but it's just me. Oh, we can't look after you then, you know? So, and I want to know the numbers and I want to be able to do the reports and I want the things to be able to automate for me because I understand it. There needs to be a market for that as well. Yeah,  absolutely. And it's like, how does everyone just acknowledge it and support it regardless of what your opinion is?

Yeah. Because.  The solo  hairdresser can get very lonely. Which is why, yeah, fell on rising. The solo hairdresser is something, we knew that as we started to do this work, it has to be both. Absolutely. Has to be the solo artist and it has to be the artist that has staff, like it has to be both. One or the other is, and actually not even just the hairdressers, because I find that even the solo hairdressers seem to have more of a collaborative union because often you  and I say hairdressers, I shouldn't say hairdressers.

'cause in our industry it's, it's how it's a hair and beauty industry. But I feel like beauty can be even more so isolating. Even even more so articul if you're working on your own. Yeah, because it's that very. Isolated, you know, like not like in a co sharing workspace where you're bouncing off other people.

You are like in your own little room, in your bubble. It can be really isolating if you don't have those communities and connections and support. Agreed. Because what happens when someone hates, doesn't like something or you don't have someone to bounce off and no one stands except for other people in our industry.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think too,  I've been, I talked to a lot of business coaches in my, Partnerships role  and a lot of them all say that people come and get a coach when their business is failing  Yeah, why did you wait to the end? Correct correct,  and I think if I could tell my younger self  I would have got a coach when I started Yeah, why like  I so would that would have been an ideal scenario of like Okay And just just have someone that  accountability.

Because people even now say, well, I just can't afford it. We're like, I get it, but you're going to be able to afford it less if you don't have the help. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's like, if you get sick, well, when I get sicker, when I'm on my death bed, that's when I'll go and have the surgery.  I feel sane! 

Stop yelling at me! When I'm absolutely dying, and I can't move my back, and I can't, I'm almost not living, I'll get the surgery then, and then I'll think, Why the fuck didn't I do that sooner?  Yeah. Which is exactly what Jen did, she doesn't want to do that anymore. It's all about teaching everyone from lived experience.

Ha! True. But it's the same when it comes to the finances. It's like when, one day when I finally get on top of things, you're not getting on top of things unless someone teaches you how to get on top of it. Mm. Unfortunately,  unless you do something radical, at which point we know with our money stories, we need someone to teach us and to learn and to how to guide us into that, you know, sometimes it's therapy, sometimes it's strategy.

But do you know what it reminds me of? It's like this whole marriage counselling concept. It's like, Like, you know, the whole, we have a random ex client who does marriage counselling who has spoken to us about the fact that people rock up and it's too late. It's like, you needed to be here so much sooner.

Like if you were here, you know, but he talks about it being like, A car where you have to constantly be working, like just constantly have those like touch and you know, like just be constantly working on it, making sure that everything's going smoothly and you guys feel good. Don't do it when the car is literally like falling everything out of the bonnet and it's about to blow up because you can't come back from that.

It's time for a new car. Yeah, but that's what we do to ourselves. Yeah. Like we go through life, you know, life crisis, crisises, and then we hit a point where we're like, Oh, yeah.  And I always say to myself, and I do this every single morning, how am I going to show up today? Yeah. Who  check in? Who, how am I showing up for everyone around me and myself today?

Yeah. And that helps you navigate.  So much because you also can see when you I do that also the night before because I can also see where I go out of my body the next day. So for example, for me, I've got five kids. So for me, in the mornings, when I'm doing the kids,  if I'm not up  and onto it before my children are up. 

I am  a psychopath because I'm yelling at everyone to get their stuff done because I'm not done. And now I'm overwhelmed. So this morning, I was like, last night, I was like, I can't start this week off on the back foot. Yeah. So when you say show up, how are you showing up for yourself and other people? I'm like,  I actually have got to be up at like five 30 and I've got to get this.

And so when the kids came in. I was like a light to see them. They were like, Oh, you're awake. And I could like enjoy my morning with them. And I had a plan on the fridge for this morning. And I, when I left the house, I was like, guys, we did good this morning. But if I, if I'm in control of that. But that's the prime example of looking at the, like that, you basically life reported yourself is what you did.

You know, you took all the information that you had, you looked at the report and then you proceeded accordingly. I was like, if I don't, that was my retail check, you know, I've got to sell retail. I've got to make sure my kids go get bread. Like I wrote it down. I had water written on my list. Did I drink it?

No. I was the water was bad. I'm going to drink some water today. Um, but I think that we. You can see, like you said, looking at from the outside, you're like, that goes hectic because of me. So I can blame everybody else  for this issue.  Or I can actually look at it from the outside and be like, Oh,  if I can reflect on why everything goes to shit and, and change things, I can adapt it and change things as well.

So I think it's in life, in business, you know, if we can sit back and reflect and be like, well, if I actually knew my numbers or if I actually got support or if I actually found someone,  I listened to something or I delved into a podcast. It doesn't always have to be coaching. We talk about it cause we do it for a living, but do something about it, especially going into 2025, if you're there and you think I could get lower and you want to increase, you want to, as you said in the beginning, if you want to thrive instead of just surviving, you have to make change.

There has to be, and someone generally needs to teach it to you. Yeah. Yeah. And being vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay if you're not doing well in your business. Yeah, a lot of people are not. Yeah, it's a perception, right? Especially online. It's a perception of we have to have the perception, right?

Because no client wants to come to a salon that doesn't look busy,  right? That is, that is. I don't care what anyone says, that's it. So whatever you need to do to make it look busy, make that happen. But you being vulnerable and just saying, Hey, I'm not doing well.  That creates connection. That's going to create potentially a new relationship and that's going to potentially help someone's going to help you.

And there are so many people in this industry willing to help. Maybe it's your friends.  I found that in my friends,  especially recently I bought a house. It was a big achievement for me, being single girl, you know, rewriting my whole money story, learning how to understand where to put my money. I lent on all my friends.

Yeah. Cause no one It's okay if you don't have the answer. Just ask. Yeah, ask. The biggest disfavor you can do is not ask. And everyone's willing to help you actually. Because when we share information, we feel good. Yeah. There is a dopamine hit of going, you've just asked me that. I feel honored that you have just asked me for help.

Yeah. We all want to help. Yeah. Especially if we've been successful. Yeah. So ask. Yeah. And we also live in a digital world, right? Making connections with people, if you are  shy slide into people's DMS. Yeah. Like me, I mean, I'm a slide in the DMS for everything. I  trust me.  And like we say, like the vulnerability is the biggest part and pushing yourself.

I was vulnerable the other day on our stories because I'm very vulnerable in the background of Salon Rising. So when I, when a When we take clients on in my programs, I'm very vulnerable. All my clients know a lot about where my stories are, where my life is. Um, but on Instagram and stuff, it's, as you said, you've got to have a point of vulnerability and then a point of, don't I know it, and a point of like, Okay.

This is also a business, but  you know, and I checked with these guys, you know, I was vulnerable last week. People don't know certain things. There's a tax debt sitting there for me because of my, not because I can't pay it, but because of what's happening with my separation with my ex husband. So there's stuff that is, so for the first time, I'm back in a position where I was.

10 years ago out of my control. Right. So a money story that's taken out of my, you're not in that position. No, I'm not in that position. No, I'm not. Because you know, so much more than you did then not in the position. I'm not in the position, but you're in a position that makes you really uncomfortable.

Yeah. So I'm in a, you know, a finite, but.  If I wasn't back here, I also don't think I'd be pushing myself to the next level of where I am at the moment. Like, I would just be cruising because the more money you have, the more money you can spend. Yep. I would just be cruising, not thinking about it, just kind of, whereas, you know, these situations happen, and if everyone, anyone that's in this situation now, you wouldn't be where you were, who you are, what you've been able to do, and how you've been able to help people, had you not had that experience with the salon.

Absolutely. I truly believe that we do that and we go through things like that for a reason. I'm exactly here at the moment for this very reason that I don't think I would be able to level up Salon Rising in the back side of things. And also because I'm living it, I'm more passionate about  living it for other people.

Absolutely. You know, like I'm like, I know this changes things. I know this makes a difference. I know that this can happen in so many different areas of my life, of where I live right now that I'm like, I know, but when you're in it, it's so easy to stay stuck and to not make change. Because.  Changes scarier.

Oh yeah. But like we always say, nothing changes unless it changes. Yeah, nothing changes. And if you're in a position where you're like, I if I, you know, we say, think of your life this time, exactly next year. If you're in exactly the same position as what you were in now. How does it make you feel? And if it's sticky at all, make a change, do something, be brave, do something different to see what you can get as a different result. 

That word brave. Yeah.  It makes me kind of, I think people sometimes get scared of the word vulnerability. Because it's uncomfortable. It's like a word vomit. Word vomit, yeah. But if you flip it on the other side. And so be brave. Or courage, courageous. Courageous has this like power to it. It's like, yeah, I have the courage. 

Being courageous is the same as being vulnerable. Yes. So if you feel like you've got to kind of step into that power of vulnerability and doing your thing, just think about it as like, fuck yeah, courage. I just also think you just have to be okay with being uncomfortable.  Change is un comfortable.

Comfortable, find someone that tells me that it's not. If you want to get ripped, it's going to be uncomfortable. I have to stop eating. It's not going to happen. If you want to, you know, buy a house, you're going to have to get uncomfortable. You're going to have to pull your spending in. If you want to change your business, you're going to have to be uncomfortable.

There's going to have to be conversations that you have. There might be people in your business that need to go. There might be, you know, money issues that are happening that you've got to reach out to someone and be vulnerable. I say to everybody that goes into the budget side of our, of Salon Rising, Oh, I'm real sorry, but this is going to get real gross for you right now.

But it is like the first step to difference because then you're aware of it all. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.  Are there any other statistics you had to share there?  I do love a number. Do you really do? And she keeps them all in her head.  I do.  Well, one thing that scares me still,  Oh God, I'm terrified. 

There's two things that still scare me  in this industry. I'm not ready for this.  The average retail percent in a business is 7%.  Okay. So I never, what I need to know from you for this, cause I look at retail differently.  So  I look at retail on percentage of clients purchasing. I don't look at it as an overall percent of my business.

So for example, if the business made 10 grand, I don't think, I don't look at it as the business has to make.  To grant of that in retail, for example, I look at it as the percentage of clients. So if the, if you looked after 10 clients, at least three have to purchase because that means that you did your job.

It means that you did your job properly because you're actually recommending to all your clients and making sure that it's just a single monetary value thing, then you could have one person that buys. Um, and then you haven't bothered to do anything. That's definitely a really great way to look at it, but I think as an industry just overall.

Yep.  So when you say 7 percent so someone, I'm saying if someone spent 10, 000, they're making 700 in retail. Correct. A lot of people will look at that and say that was successful. Interesting. What do you think people should be? What do you think people? I think when I, the. The challenging part  is hair and beauty,  right? 

They're the same, but they're different.  Beauty therapists have a way of better way of recommending retail. They do it from a much stronger consultative approach.  Hairdressers are still a little behind. I think though it's because when you go and have say a facial,  you're pretty much going for that reason.

Fix my face. Yep. And it's the same with hair.  Hair has an  Like you walk out of the hairdresser and it's done. You walk out of facial. You just look like you've got no makeup on, like your skin can look glowing, but no one's like, Oh girl,  damn you with that glowy skin. Because you've got all those masks on top of each other.

And you're just like, if you want to get better, you need to take all of this. If you want your skin to keep looking like this, but with hair, it's a little bit different because you walk out looking glamorous, no matter what. Transcribed The product needs to be just as important. We know that because it  keeps the color and everything that you have.

But I think it is because. You have  straight away  given them a finished product. Yeah.  But what if the client wants to recreate that? I completely agree, babe. Yeah.  This is why we're doing retail products.  I completely agree. Retail is like, because I think retail, I think we need to rename retail. Yeah.

Because retail is such a dirty word that people, like, because us as business owners are like, I say it every day, guys, you retail, you retail, you retail, you retail. But I have to say. You aren't looking after somebody if you don't give them what they need. Like that is the bottom line of why I get angry about this because it's not about the money that's coming in and selling by you selling product.

You're literally not helping someone. If I didn't have the 95 products I have in my bath, I use seven just to get ready in the mornings. I would be screwed and you're letting people not have that.  But it's changing,  it's going to take time to change what that is because we,  me,  Jen and I met at a salon that was like, I trained there, Jen had, was a senior there.

We, I met at that salon, you had to show Mrs. Jones who came in for a weekly blow dry. Yeah. So, and I hated it at the time, but let me tell you, I am so grateful for that because  My, I, I know how to recommend and I hate the words  selling and sale and this and that, but it was like, I cared about the client number one, genuinely, there's this care factor as well that people can tell if you don't genuinely care.

Yeah, do you need a shampoo and conditioner? Yeah, like, and that you have,  there's a care factor and they want to know, yeah, they genuinely sit down in the chair.  They want to know what you've used. I always say to my clients, if you don't buy anything, that's fine. I'm just going to tell you the things that would make a huge difference.

Yeah, because you've told me the things that you're having problems with. So, I'm going to tell you what I think will help. And that's okay, to say that. It's so okay, but they want to know.  And so, you know, coming  through my apprenticeship is so hard.  budgets and hated it.  But when I left and I moved into another cell and I didn't do that, I was like, this is easy.

I'm kicking goals because it just was so fluid. And then you get a kick out of it cause you're kicking goals. Don't we all want to kick goals? Mate when people buy product, I'm like, A, I'm so proud of you. And B,  I did a good job. Not you bought stuff, but like, you're going to love that. Yeah. And you're gonna love me for it and every time you use it you're gonna think of me.

Yes. Exactly, exactly. And if you have a fear, if you're a business owner and you have a fear of recommending and you might be a solo.  There's so many cool tools that you can set up in your software that actually automate your recommendations for you.  And I always love having those conversations because it's okay if you're not great at doing it.

Like, and you're too caught up in having your chit chat, which trust me, I was also that person. Like, I know exactly what you eat for dinner and all the things. So  knowing if I did have that conversation, I forgot to recommend. I knew that there was an automation in the background that was just going to come through that said, Hey, X, Y, Z.

Blah, blah, blah. And that kind of ticked off the box. And then also as a business owner, if you having staff,  if your staff forgot to recommend, well, at least, you know, there's a little email going out, isn't there, after they've left. So it's like, what security things can I set up in the background? That's just going to make life a little easier.

Word it however you like. Yeah. So I think. Again, we've got to recognize. It's like that. I forget to cart.  Your cart's sitting here, still wants to be  like, don't forget your cart. Did you forget your items? Oh my God. So I got an email like that from the company that sells out that I buy from all the time, Sabi.

And they, you know, so the other night I bought all of this stuff from this company and then I forgot to actually check it out on PayPal and it sells out within a matter of minutes. So I was devastated. And then they sent me an automated email that was like, did you forget to check out your cart? And I responded and they ride it from their dog,  Alan.

So I was like, dear Alan, I didn't in fact forget to check out my cart. I didn't press go on PayPal. And now I'm deeply sad. And I'm even more sad that you reminded me that the items in my cart were not to be shipped.  So it works guys. It does. It does. And again, just recognizing and learning who you are. 

What is your business DNA? Like, who are you as a person?  Why are you even in your business? Why do you do what you do? And then work out what your weaknesses and your strengths are.  If you're good at building the relationship with your client, but you suck at recommending or set an automation for it and enjoy your relationship. 

It's okay. There's a solution for it.  And I think. We've just got to take the time to sit back and think about that. I think exactly as you said, anyone that's listening to this episode right now, sit down and write your strengths and weaknesses in your business. You'll know it. You know, you might be really good with figures, but you're not so good at, you know, the communication side, you're struggling with developing more of a relationship, or you might be really good at other places, the same thing, do it with your staff.

I think this is going to be a great, I'm going to be writing this down the minute that I stand up is I'm going to do a strength and weaknesses with my team to see where they're, they're struggling and where they're really strong and how I can develop them as a leader as well. So that next year, their strengths, their weaknesses.

Get improved and their strengths get improved, you know, so that, you know, we're harnessing in on the good and the bad. So I think that, you know, even that, like, where are your, I don't think we think about that enough. Where's our strengths and where are our weaknesses like, and how are we actually developing them and how are we looking over on, on how they were affecting us in our lives and our businesses?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Hold on, you had one more terrifying thing you had to say. You said I had two terrifying facts. One was retail. Oh, still the average rebooking rate. Yeah, okay. Still sits at 32%. Yeah.  And I mean, I know that the  hair salon landscape has definitely changed.  You know, we're still in this lived in colours. 

And God, I love it.  But it definitely, Definitely. had a shift in the industry and get that that will affect I still believe that affects  the numbers  but  are you having the conversation? It's a client journey that I talk about like that you should be talking about what is coming up next in this appointment.

And I think too something that I see done really well and I  I love, I get a lot of inspiration because I see so many different businesses and I get to see what they're doing or we actually have a really cool thing at Timely where we actually get a hundred dollars a month that we can spend with our customers  so we can go out, you know, we work from home so we don't necessarily get the in person, but we'll rock up, get a facial or whatever it is and Timely pay for that every month and then we get to help them with things.

That's cool! That is really cool. It's amazing and they love it. Like it's such a. Oh, no way. Cause you're giving back to their business.  And I get to experience different things.  And I love a good consultation and yes, busy, all those things, but setting up something Asking your client a question, like how, what's your expectation of being, how, how regular do you like to come to the salon? 

And at least then if they've answered that. And then ask them it again. Yeah. The biggest thing I can tell you is don't ask them how often they want to be here. They'll lie because anyone that's lived in will say, Oh,  Maybe like six or eight weeks and you're like, well that's funny you haven't been in in 16 weeks.

And I'm like, tell me again. I was like, how long do you often do you really wanna do it? Because people are also ashamed at not doing things. Women especially  feel they didn't do it right. Feel guilty for doing things. You're gonna get angry with them 'cause they didn't do it right. Or they feel guilty for taking care of themselves and they, they think, oh, I should probably do it a little bit more 'cause I'm not taking care of myself.

Yeah. But then I'm guilty and I'm like. How often do you actually want to get done? Ask him twice. Yeah. Yeah. That's good advice too, I think. And even on the retail side of things or even other services that your salon offers, something I found really clever seeing a salon do was on the consult form. 

Listing other services they might want to talk about.  Because what happens is you're like, yeah, you're just a hair salon. But you might have a beauty room in the back and they don't even know.  And so working in synergy a little more and them just answering the question, at least then you've got that consult form and you're like, I've already started talking to people about the smoothing product that I don't have. 

I was like, next year I'm going to be doing this product. My best friend does and it's really good. I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to be doing it. It was like, excellent. You let me know when it comes in. I've told like five people, I have not even looked into it. I'm just hoping Jen does it all for me and that it's going to be real easy. 

Just so you know,  we're talking about the journey that I don't know I'm going on yet.  But that's okay. That's okay. I'm gonna give them something they need. Yeah. I'm excited about it. Don't do it to shit you don't want. There's a reason why I've been avoiding this for so long. It's also being very, um, authentic to where you actually want your business to go.

Yeah. Because believe me, I'm not talking about hair extensions  or men's cuts.  I like hair extensions and men's cuts. I don't mind,  but I like hair extensions.  Yeah.  So again, that whole client journey, you know, the consult forms, getting to see what other businesses are doing and using all of those tools. 

Again, find your weaknesses. Yeah.  Work on it. Automate it.  Be okay with being shit at it and find a solution. Yes. And you can also tell your clients, look I'm really shit at this, so just get an email.  I mean, maybe not. I feel really uncomfortable, so here's an email.  And I'll tell you everything you need and why.

Yeah. It also makes me think of, you know, another fear I had when I had the salon was Online bookings  because petrified everyone's petrified. Everyone's like, I can't get online bookings. I'm like, mate, if you don't get online bookings, you're not getting clients. Cause Jen  is the reason why you need online bookings because she changed her dentist because she couldn't do an online booking.

Yeah, that's where we're at now though. Don't, I don't want to talk to people, ring this phone, the work phone. And I send them a message back, I'm like, hi, miss your call, please send me a text message. Like, yeah, you know, it is going the days of wanting to have a conversation are going and people want it to be via text message.

I think you can still have that. They're still coming to you for that connection conversation, but all the other stuff can happen. Yeah, just. Automated. Yes. Automate that shit. Yep. Online booking. Absolutely. Make that happen. Yep. I remember when I turned it on. It's petrified because we all want control over our book.

I don't know, I want to make sure it's like, you know, but you just got to spend the time and set it up properly. Yes. And then I remember turning it on and I was getting appointments at like 2am.  Who the hell?  What's going on at 2am? It's like, you know, lady breastfeeding. Breastfeeding mothers. Yeah. Someone who's just finished night shift. 

I make weird things all the time. Menopausal.  In the middle of the night. That happens. I make the weirdest things at the weirdest. The other morning at 3am I got contents insurance for my house. I've done that before. I just couldn't. I was just like, I could not sleep. And to that content, so I went on to three different things, worked out the best quote, did it three o'clock till four o'clock.

And then I went back to sleep.  I have a funny story about that. So again, our sunny money that we have at timely couldn't sleep one night. I was like, I need a massage.  Oh my God. So good.  Then go to book online,  go to timely page, go to book online. And then it asked me for my card. I was like, I'm in bed.  And then I know how timely works.

So I was like, Oh, it's. The guy will call me tomorrow. Cause it tells you if someone's tried to put in  a card or they've exited out of the new card. You're like, I know how this works, so I'll just do it. So I was like, Oh, he'll probably call me tomorrow morning. Straight away, 9am.  I noticed that you tried to make a booking.

Is everything okay? And I just cracked up laughing because I said to him, I knew you were going to call because I actually work for Timely and I know how the booking system works. And then he laughed. I said, I just couldn't be bothered getting out of bed at 3am to get my card. So I just exited it out.

And knowing you would call me. And we had the biggest laugh on the phone about it. And you're like, here's my card details. And then he's like, don't worry about your card details. I know you're probably going to show up. No, it's fine. If not, I'm going to call you boss. I'm going to get a refund.  So, yeah, I've done many things at odd times too, but yeah, the little notification saying someone's tried to make a booking is a good one.

It is such a good one. Honestly. I just feel like we've learned or learned a lot from that conversation. I feel like this conversation could go on forever. Yeah. Richard's like, come on, you've got to wrap it up. Richard's been like, and then we keep going into the next subject and you can tell Richard's like, what about this guys?

Richard's like, shit. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Um, so thank you so much for coming. I enjoyed that and got so much out of that. Even for my head, I'm like, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. To write a list. As soon as we get off, this is a whole purpose of this, these conversations is that you guys are like, yes, yes, yes.

And if you do write it down and start putting into action, put it on your list. And it doesn't have to be done straight away, but like put some of these things into place because this is where the change happens. And it's the change. Thank you so much for coming and coming up to see us and coming and joining us on the show and helping me with everything.

You're so welcome. Thank you for having me and thank you for creating such a really beautiful podcast to have people share, you know, we need things like this in our industry. And it's really, really, really important to have these conversations. You need to come back because I feel like we've got so many.

We, it's like part two, part 75. People are like, all right, so it's the three of you now? Cool.  All right, guys, thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.