Salon Rising: The Podcast - kevin murphy

Summary

In this special interview in the inner sanctum, join Samara and Jen as they delve deep into the life and career of industry legend, Kevin Murphy. The mastermind behind the iconic haircare brand. 

The trio discuss Kevin's remarkable journey from an apprentice in Brisbane and Melbourne in the late 1970s to the industry icon of today. 

Kevin shares personal anecdotes from his early career. The challenges he faced in crafting a unique product lines and transformative moments that defined his success. Kevin highlights how authenticity, dedication, and innovation built the Kevin Murphy brand. Emphasising environmental sustainability and personalised care.

Beyond his professional life, Kevin reflects on his daily routine, thoughts on retirement, and personal life in Byron Bay. Including his love for his two French bulldogs. 

The episode has a blend of industry insights, heartfelt anecdotes, and a glimpse of an exciting upcoming venture. It's a must-listen for anyone interested in the passion and perseverance behind one of haircare’s most respected names.

Timestamps

00.00 Welcome and Intro
02:18 Meet Kevin Murphy: The Man Behind the Brand

04:01 Kevin Murphy's Early Career in Hairdressing

09:32 Challenges and Innovations in the Haircare Industry

15.16 Kevin's First Big Customer

15.42 Breaking into the American Market

18.26 Different Products for Different Hair

20:40 The Evolution of Kevin Murphy's Product Line

21.41 Kevin's First Product

23.43 How the Brand Name Began

26.48 Learning to Develop Product

35:43 Industry Shifts and Community Building

36:22 Kevin Murphy's Career Journey

37.48 Creating the Iconic Beach Hair

42:37 The Shift to Color Me by Kevin Murphy

51:36 Guidance from Kylie Minogue

55:49 Daily Life and Future Plans

01:03:58 Reflecting on 20 years of Kevin Murphy

Transcript

 Welcome back to the Inner Sanctum lovers today. We are joined by A very special guest, the man, the myth, the legend, not just the name on the shampoo bottle in your shower. Mr. Kevin Murphy.

Hello.

Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so grateful. I'm

happy to be here. It's nice. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me actually. No,

thank you for coming. Yeah. So, um, I think it's really nice that we're able to have this chat coming up to the the 20 year anniversary of the Kevin Murphy brand, which is a pretty amazing effort in itself.

But I think what we really wanted today was to find out a little bit more about Kevin Murphy, the person,

the person behind it all and the journey, because 20 years in business and to be that name on the shelves is amazing. But who is Kevin Murphy and how did he get there?

Okay, well, I'm a person. A lot of people don't actually think that I am a real person, which is sort of funny.

When you say your name in shops and go, Oh, Kevin Murphy, do people go, Oh, that's a brand?

Um, it happens on the phone actually. Like when I'm calling like a courier or something, a lady spoke to me. She said, Oh, You've got a very famous name. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm, I'm him. So the thing is, then she started talking about her hair.

She said, tell me about all the hairdressers journey. Like she's got curly hair on top or I think it was like she had curls. She had a perm done in the back cause she had curly hair on top. And I'm like, Oh, You need to use this. You need to do that sort of thing. And then we had a talk for about, say 15 or 20 minutes.

She's like, I'm going to go and tell my hairdresser when I go back to the salon. I'm like, okay. But I was chatting with Kevin Murphy. It's like, but also I do need something couriered if you could help me with that. I was doing a return. Also, if you could get this sorted now that you know, your hair care regime would be good.

Yeah. Well, I'll probably sell them some product. I need this, this, that, that, and that.

Kevin Murphy told me specifically.

That's very cool. It's like, I'm actually a person. Okay. So you're a person who started in the industry. Tell us about that.

Well, I mean, I think there's, I've had about 1000 starts because if you think about it, hairdressing So the industry meaning like the hair product industry or the hair industry?

No, the hair industry. Okay. So I started actually at John LaCourte, um, which is a salon group in Brisbane. But I actually had came from Melbourne and I moved to Brisbane, uh, got a job at John LaCourte, lasted for about sort of three or four months and then moved back to Melbourne again. And so pretty much started my apprenticeship, probably at Smithers in Glenferry road.

And I think that they're actually still there, which is quite, wow. Is that in

Melbourne,

in Melbourne? So I think that that moved two shops down the road. So that's pretty

cool. That's great to have been lasting that long. That's amazing. Not to imply it's been a long time.

I think it's had a few sort of revolutions, but that was in like 1979.

I think it's pretty, it's a long, I mean, It was a very long time ago. The industry was very, very different. Um, I think they used to go for jobs where you'd go into your, you'd sort of line up to go and get a job and there'd be 150 people going for the one job sort of thing. So the apprenticeships were very, very hard to get.

Wow. Really, really different to now. There was very few jobs and everybody wanted to be ahead or something. Wow. Who knew? Then, um, and then I was, I can, you know, cut the story short sort of thing because then I did my apprenticeship down in Melbourne. And then I had a friend who was a model and she said, can you come and do my hair for a photo shoot?

And I was like,

Oh yeah,

thinking what, what, what will this do? And then I started working on the hair and they said, Oh, you know, you're really good. And I'm like, I think this is really fun. I can really do this. Um, and then one thing led to another. And then the photographer says to me, well, you should come back.

But I think that. If you think about your journey, like it's, I didn't stop hairdressing in a salon to start session work. It just all sort of happened around the same time. Yep. Um, I think that there, um, there's no one point in time where you can say, Oh, I just jumped off and did that. Because I was always making products in the salon.

I was always mixing things. I was in the salon more than I was a session hairdresser, but the session hairdressers is what people remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have a sip of water. Go for it. Go for it. Hydration is key.

Yeah. Hydration.

Another question or do you want me to just keep on talking?

Keep going, we're loving this. Alright,

okay. I think that the thing that made me make products was when I had my, I had a salon called Cusco Murphy. And, um, I think this is probably like 10 or 15 years. I'd done some freelance already. I'd worked for some magazines. I'd done little bits and bobs. But. In my salon, all the um, all the products around at that time so think is that the journey that made me actually make products was purely because all my clients were sort of, they all thought they had bad hair.

Oh no, I'm rich. I'm really, my hair's really thin or you know, my hair's really dry or I think that, Our industry, everything was branded dry, dull, lifeless, limp

or

damaged. So every time you woke up in the morning, you jumped in the shower and you're like, I'm damaged sort of thing. And those are sort of, those are the messages that were put out by our industry at that time.

And I think that there was no difference between a salon shampoo and a supermarket shampoo. Wow. They're all the same. There was no hydrating shampoos. There was no sulfite free. There was no nothing. It was pretty much. What you bought at the supermarket was the same thing that you could buy in the hair salon.

Wow. And there was no differentiation. There was not, there wasn't even a, a hair shampoo for fine or colored hair. There was a shampoo for colored hair and there was a shampoo for fine hair, but they weren't in the same bottle. Yeah. I was like, Oh, okay, well, this is not very sort of personal. And then, I think that also the, um, the other messages were like, you know, one size fits all for all hair types.

And I'm like, okay, how many people in this room? We've got one, two, three, four, five girls. Have you all got the same hair? Can you all use the same product? I don't think so. Absolutely not. Yeah. So I think that were the messages that were really coming out of my industry at that time. And I think that when my clients would come in and they'd be all like sad about their hair.

I'd be like, well, you know, you've got nice hair and they go, no, I've got terrible hair because all the messages that were coming out was you've got to be dry, damaged, dull, or lifeless. And then limp was another good one as well. My brother's got really limp hair. Yeah. And these people had nice hair, but they didn't have the right product to sort of build it out sort of thing.

So, and I think that a lot of women have got very sort of finer hair or, you know, fine ish hair. And there was nothing for them. So that was, that's what made me make products in the first place.

I love that. Yeah.

And, um, and I think it's because I just wanted my clients to be happy with themselves. I,

that makes me really excited now to actually, when I use the bottles and to think that behind it, when I'm recommending that the messaging, as you said, is, you know,

We want to be positive.

Yes. But the first one was Angel Watch because it was like, well, I want to be an angel. I don't want to be dull or lifeless. Dull or

lifeless, or limp.

Or thin. I mean, I want to be thin actually.

Fine hair is a different thing. Having fine hair different to having thin in the hair, thin hair. And you don't really want to be told that you've got thin hair every day or damaged. I think that was the worst one. Like I'm just damaged when I get in the shower. And I, yeah,

as you exactly, as you said, it is so many women, I think with You have incredibly fine hair, you're already self conscious because you've got incredibly fine hair or because you're incredibly damaged.

Here is a bottle to tell you you're damaged. That I've never actually thought of it that way. That is pretty exceptional. There

was that big, like everything was really bright. I had a salon in Melbourne that was all very smooth and everything in the nineties was about biscuit or beige. Yes. So there was a thousand.

Different versions of beige, not uncommon to what we kind of have now, but, um, I think that I had this yellowy beige salon, but then all the products were hot pink and chartreuse. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, these really look bad. Everyday

gaudy. It was like, fluoro. Everything was screened. Yeah, yeah.

So, and I think that the products that are yelling all those big words that you're saying, all those horrible things, was detrimental to the industry and detrimental to my clients as well.

Yeah. It felt like they were. Not really living up to their full potential so things I wanted them to feel empowered and inspired I didn't want them to feel like oh, I've just got really thin head. No, there's no hope for me Yeah, and also the um, the one size fits all like for all hair types. It's just It's just not true.

And I think that when, sometimes even when people say to me now, can you make a product for everybody? And I'm like,

no, I can't. Yeah.

Everybody is different. Every day. Can you make one clothing item apart from a gigantic Moomoo that fits everybody? You cannot, you can't, it's the same way.

You need to say with a few young designers that you go to a fashion designer because they've, they've got the right cut for your body.

So you might go to that, that particular brand because they've got the right type Uh, either chemicals, look, smell, feel, things that you are attracted to as well. So you can't be everybody, you can only please some of the people, some of the time. Not all the people, all the time.

That's very cool to hear from a big brand because you can't, like we know that even as hairdressers, that not one brand fits all, not one hairdresser fits all.

You know, some people will love, be obsessed with something, other people won't because hair is so different. It depends. What is going to work specifically for you

and the beholder as well. Yeah, some people might think, Oh, you know, those, like when we first got to America, they said, Oh, your bottles are too small.

Like, Oh, they said, cause I can't see them. And I'm like, no, they can see them and they're like, cause all the other bottles were big and screaming. So, and then they tried to, when we first got there, they said to me, Oh, we're just going to make the bottles a bit bigger. And I'm like, well, you're going to have empty bottles sort of thing.

So then half the bottle is going to be empty. Which that's not, yeah. It's like, Oh, it's not value. Sort of thing. Like nobody wants to buy a half empty bottle of shampoo. Luckily they all fell over like Skittles. Luckily they couldn't stand up on their own. Yeah. So it was sort of thing because for me it was, um, you know, having a small bottle was a small packaging thing as well.

Like it's a, it was more of an environmental message. And I think that. When we first started making products, no one got that environmental message at all. Oh, you were very much

a trailblazer in the environmental side of things. I think

when we were doing it, nobody was really thinking about it. No one was really caring about it.

Yeah. It wasn't really a thing then. And then I remember going into, um, into meetings where they say, oh, you just have to make it bigger and bolder. And I'm like, no, I need to make it smaller and square. Yeah. So that you've got less plastic. And they were like, well, hairdressers aren't environmentalists. So I'm like, well, they might be.

Yes. You might. I think that. The days of the toxic avengers are sort of gone. Yeah. I mean, hairdressing can be quite toxic or it has been in the past. I mean, you've got that thalidomide in hair products and all those weird things going on. But I think that now.

Every, I find a lot of owners are making choices based on All of those decisions.

Well, I think it's

about longevity for your staff. Agreed. You know, to keep people in the industry, we need to make better, more conscious choices about the things that are impacting us on a day to day basis, as well as the things that are impacting our clients. Yeah.

Agreed.

I think I remember like when I was young, the colourist was always had a respiratory problem.

Oh yeah. They were always breathing in chemicals. And I remember even talking to Kate and she was talking about the no dusting. Cause I didn't, I didn't really learn how to colour hair because we were, we were At a time in headdressing where

you picked one or the other,

you picked one or the other. There was no way you couldn't be both.

So the thing was, I think now you've got to be everything. Yeah. You've got to do it all.

Yeah.

Um, which I think is hard.

Oh, whether you do it all well, but yes. Yeah. I agreed. Yeah. I think it's, it's very hard to be the master of all in this. I don't think it's possible to be the master of all in this industry because there is a lot.

I think some people are really good at both. I'm surprised. Like even when I'm in makeup, I was, you can color hair and I'm like, wow.

So you're coming into this, you know, the product side of the industry at this time where there's really only the big. You know, the giants, you know, your, your Wellers and your Schwarzkopf with the, with the screaming, you know, type branding and bottles and all that.

I can

think of that even where we did our apprenticeships, I think about the bottles and they were big bottles. I'm thinking about a specific brand, very Larry brand, massive bottles, bright colors, like, and that's, you know, you were selling it. He's like, I know exactly what you're talking about, which I don't want to say, but yeah, it was very big and very like hair product.

And you know, it's when you went

into that though, where people saying to you, this isn't going to work, that's not going to work.

Actually, a lot of people said to me, Oh, you'll never do it. Like everyone else has tried. You've never tried, you'll never succeed sort of thing. So I was like, Hmm. I'm going to succeed.

Um, I think that there was enough people who liked what we were doing, but it was just getting people to sort of come around saying to them, explaining to them why the bottles were small sort of thing. So once I knew that why that was more than like, okay, we can talk about that sort of thing. So once I knew why we made them those colors, it's like, there's a reason for it.

So I think that sometimes you get a, like a knee jerk reaction. So when you first come into America, like America is a huge market. So we're selling in. Australia, New Zealand. And you know, we're doing okay. We weren't doing that great sort of thing. We were, it was okay. And then we started selling in Europe and then when Europe it first took off sort of thing.

Because they're more environmentally minded. Yeah. So they knew it was sulfate free, paraben free, all of those things. They knew that the bottles were small because we were on less plastic. So our first big customer was actually den. Believe it or not. Wow. That was our first. That's so

far ahead in terms of environmental stuff.

Our first million dollar sort of client. Wow. Wow. We've never had one before that sort of thing and you really, I think that it, it costs you so much money to make it sort of thing. So having that first. Go, Oh, yes, we like this. And then that led on to another great thing and then another great thing. And then we're actually getting recognized for what we did.

So that was fantastic. But then when we went to America, all of that got thrown out the window and now we're like, we're knee jerking on everything. Cause I like, ah, when you go, when you, when you could sell something in America, the, your, if you're the sales person. You are treated like a doormat. Yeah It's it's a buyer's market Yes, if you're buying something in America, you can be as mean as you possibly can So yeah, so the person is selling it to you, whereas I think in Europe and America, sorry in Europe and Australia You've still got to be nice to the people.

Yeah. Yeah,

like I know I've got friends who are American and they'll go into a shop And I go So you can't say things like that. Yeah. It would be nice because we're all nice. Yes. Yeah. And then we go, yeah, but I'm the customers. I'm fine. That sort of thing. I'm like, well, so the customer's always right. Yes.

Yeah. So anyway, when we got first got there, they didn't like the colors. They didn't like the shapes too small. Writing's too small. Everything was like, we're like, Oh, but we'll get there sort of thing. And then luckily we, um, we met a, um, One particular guy, who had a distribution network, and luckily there was another, I can't sort of name any names, but there was a company that had been bought by, um, a very large conglomerate, and they were a hairdressers brand, and then this particular brand decided to pull it out of all of the distributors.

So they had nothing to sell. Wow. Nothing. So they said, we're, we're removing your contract straight away. Effective now sort of thing. So we had all these distributors with nothing to sell and we had a very similar product. So here you go walking the doors like, Oh, they were like, wow, we've. Like a replacement sort of thing, but it actually wasn't a replacement.

So yeah, they're expecting us to be exactly the same as this particular product. But the only thing that we had in common was we were sulfate free. Yeah. Okay. We were sulfate free in the beginning. And even when, um, people was like, what does sulfate free mean? And I said, well, it's just a softer, it's more gentle on the hair.

Because for me, it's all about using those skincare. Ingredients that were more gentle on the hair. So the hair wasn't being stripped or things. So, you know, it's kind of long story short, this particular brand wasn't the same as us, but it was similar sort of thing. So it took us a long time to get over that hurdle.

Yeah. Okay. So it was, it was an easy in, but then you had to sort of stay in sort of things, it's really good to open the door, but once you get in the door, you've got to really put your piggy boots on and start stomping around and make it, make, make some noise happen.

Yeah. Wow. So by the time you're entering a market like America.

How big was your range? Like, how

Oh, we didn't, we weren't that big actually. We had, um, we had the one for finest, so we had angel. We had, um, we had the smoothing, we had a smooth one, but it wasn't really that smooth. It was called luxury wash. And I think that that was at a time where, um, They really needed it to be a lot smoother.

Yeah. I think that, I think because of, in Australia, like the hair might be a little bit finer. In America, they've got a lot thicker hair. Yes, yeah. So they needed us to really kick the goals when it came to like smoothing the hair over. Yeah. We didn't really have that then. So, but we had a great sort of like skincare story because we had our exfoliation story.

Um, we could exfoliate the hair, we could, you know, cleanse the hair lightly. So we're great for fine hair. Yeah. We didn't have any for that sort of thick and coarse. Yeah. So that took a while to sort of, for that to sort of, I didn't really understand thick and coarse either because even though I've got thick hair, but it's not really coarse.

And I think it's your personal journey helps you understand like people with thick hair cut thick hair really well. So I think people with fine hair cut fine hair really well. Jen understands it. Yeah.

It's you and I have that hair type. So we, you're always really conscious with clients. Who I would if I had someone that had hair like Jen's I'd be like don't ask me what to use We need to ask the master in that area Yeah, and vice versa because understanding your own hair is what allows you to understand theirs Yeah,

and I had curly hair.

So I understood curl. Yes, really good with curls Yeah Great at cutting curly hair fantastic at doing anything with great at making products for curly hair Great at making products for fine hair because all my clients had fine hair, but when I've got thick hair I was like, Ooh, I don't quite know what to do here.

It's just all thick and bushy sort of thing. And I was never able to get rid of it enough. So I couldn't make it go fine or something. So it took me a while to learn how to actually moisturize hair properly.

I find too, in the States, everybody's like a level six down. Um, whereas here generally it's a lot lighter than what it is up here.

Yeah. Whereas the natural base over there is when I've done courses over there, they're used to dealing with three, four, five, really dark.

I think because you've got, you've got your Latin community. That's like a very large, um, group of people. They've got really thick hair, like all the South American people, North American, sorry, South American people have all got really thick hair.

Yep. Masses of hair. Dark. Yep. Where did he get all that hair from? Yes. Yep. It sounds like, uh, like Southern European as well. Yes. Really thick. Thick hair. Yeah. And then the Northern European, which is where we actually started first, everyone got more finer hair. So it was like, Oh, that's where we were most popular.

Yeah. So it took us a while to break in sort of thing. Yeah. But I think that we, we started off with like angel. We had luxury, which is now called smooth again. Everything was for colored hair because it was power brain. We didn't have that one sort of killer, um, uh, like a color product. I've forgotten exactly what we did have then, but we, we had a few gaps.

So we're able to fill the gaps to be able to grow in that environment.

That's cool that you're able to do that. Yeah. As you said, based on what they needed at the time, because you could develop smooth in such a way that would work for the American market. That's really cool. Yeah.

And, and work for here as well.

I work for everyone who's got thick hair here, but I think that what was good was we. We didn't come from a large conglomerate sort of thing. So we came by, everything grew organically. So it's like, as we needed something, we were able to sort of get, purchase something or make something. So we didn't come with a whole rule book of like, Oh, you need to have all of your.

Seven different versions of what you're going on sort of thing. So we, we came in early on the fresh hair, the dry shampoo, but late on the purple shampoo. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. Amazing.

What was your very first product? Very first product was a product which had another brand and it was called lavender hair cream, and that's easy rider.

So easy rider was the first product ever made and easy rider was made in the back of the salon. and it was quite a bit of a funny story there because the easy rider. We said we made it for the clients. Clients love it. worked really, really well. So it was like a mixture of like this, like a, like a skin cream, like a moisturizer and a setting lotion mixed together, we used to mix it up in the back room and then what happened was I was coming in the back room one day and I looked at the assistant who was mixing it up and he was Greek and Greek men are kind of hairier than most sort of thing.

And then I looked at him again and I was like, Why don't you have a shirt on? And I was like, hang on. And then I realized that he was actually, I thought it must be hot or something. And I was like, his hand was like way, he'd mixing it with his arm sort of thing. And all I could see was his, his underarm hairs, rimming the edge of the, of the jar.

And I thought, Oh my God, there's bound to be a hair in there.

So

we had to really sort of think about it. We had to really get sort of smart at it. So I think there was going to be a hair in there somewhere. Cause the jars just got bigger because it was a small little thing. We're in the salon. So then the jars got bigger, everything got bigger, everything.

And then it got to a point where we had to go, well, I think we need to actually make, do this a better way sort of thing. So, so then that was when we got like proper manufacturers and like, you know. That was another stage of that's when, that's

when shirts came on, it was all machines were mixing instead of selling it to really fancy stores as well.

So it was something to space NK was selling to Barney's. We were selling to, um, uh, lots of, um, like Ricky's in New York, like that was sort of fancy stores. And I thought we can't have a kind of hair. Yeah. So it was quite, it was quite ridiculous as well. But so easy rider was the first. Then, um, Beach Hair came sort of second, and Beach Hair was the thing that really, well it's now called Hair Resort Hair, so I had a first, I had two brands, I had another brand, which was like a, a brand that I created myself, but all of my hairdresser friends said they wouldn't sell it because it was the name of my salon.

Yeah. It was competition, they didn't want to have someone's name at the salon. In their salon. So I had to decide not to be the name of my salon and to be Kevin Murphy. Yeah. Okay. So that's how that all came about. So the thing I was selling, you know, great stores and it was fantastic, but none of my friends who were hairdressers would buy the product.

And I was like, I don't want to buy the product because you don't have your salon's name in their person's bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Which is fair enough sort of thing. Yeah. So then we had to become, so a friend of mine said to me, if you just called it Kevin Murphy, we'd all buy it. Cause I wasn't really working in the industry then, so it was fine.

So I didn't, I couldn't call it a salon. I couldn't call it anything else. And I think I was working for magazines that always said hair by Kevin Murphy. And I thought, if I just. Call the brand Kevin Murphy then the boys because they wouldn't put the brand name in you'd have to pay for that So I think that was the advertising space.

Yeah You know, whoever the whoever the brand might be yeah hereby, you know Lottie da for Lottie da yeah thing that's advertising Yeah, that's the space where they make money sort of thing so They, I was like, okay, well, how am I going to do that? So, cause you don't really get paid that much sort of thing.

So I was like, well, how can I make, put my brand there? So I'll just call it my name. And then in the, in the start, people were saying to me in the beginning, they said, Oh, no one knows who you are. So I think, cause I didn't come from an industry hairdressers. I didn't come from like a platform artist who came from big brands.

I just came from a guy who was working. Working in a salon sort of thing. He then started doing photo shoots. And the reason I did photo shoots was so I could pass the editor, the product.

You and I are just like, this is the coolest story when you hear that, rather than being like, it was easy because I came from this and this and this, you were just like, I was a hairdresser and I was just like mixing shit up out the back.

I just wanted to help my clients. I was

good at making products. And I think I had a friend who was a session hairdresser at the time. And I thought to myself. Um, you know, I can do that. And I, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't win on every go. Like it wasn't like didn't, I didn't like, well, it wasn't an overnight success.

Um, but I remember I was living in New York and I had the product and it was so good to get a product in a magazine. So I'd pass it to the editor. She has said, Oh, I've got, I'm going to put this in my magazine. And so I remember I arrived in New York. I went straight to the newsstand and bought my copy of Harper's Bazaar sort of thing.

And I went running to my friend's office and then I said, I thought, I thought I'd made it something on here. I'm in New York. I've got my product in a magazine. I'm done sort of thing. And then my friend who looked through the magazine just went flick and I was like, Oh, it's over. Yeah, that was the way that people read magazines.

They just went flick, flick, flick. And I was like, Oh, I need to actually. Do quite a lot of work. Yeah,

I thought my moment was done

and now I was going to blow up. I thought I'd made it. I'm like, Oh, it's just, no one's really gonna, no one's really going to love it as much as I do. Yes. So we had to work out a way to make people love it, to hear about it.

And that's probably, it's just like to work really, really hard. Yeah. I knew that I had to, every step that you think you've got an achievement is like, okay, that's just actually your first step now. Yeah. All the steps that you had before don't exist anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. How did you know how to develop a product though?

Like, obviously you were mixing, you didn't. So who, who did you go to? In the

sort of, I think the 90s, there was a big push on aromatherapy. Yeah, there was. A lot of big deal with essential oils. And I had a friend and we were, we were both hairdressers at the time. And she actually has got her own brand as well, but we'll get onto that sort of thing.

Um, and we went to this, um, like a, like a Saturday, Sunday course on how to make product. So, and it was how to make skin care, to tell you the truth, so we went in there, they told us, showed us how to make us a cold cream, how to do this, how to do that. Um, we went to every like, so it's like a weekend thing.

Like everyone's got their little basket of stuff that they bring in. So everyone was making hand creams, cold creams, you know, foot balms, all that sort of stuff. And I'm like, well, I want to make shampoo. And the guy's like, well, I don't really know how to make, I don't really make shampoo. I don't do hair products.

And then I said to him, I'd really like to learn how to, how to, like, can I find a manufacturer? And he goes, well, I don't know anyone who does it, but this guy does, sort of thing. And he gave me this guy's number. And then he, um, this guy, I rang him on the phone and he wouldn't see me for three months. He's like, and I'm too busy.

And I ring him next week and he's like, I'm too busy. I ring him next week and I go, I'm too busy. Three months later. So I bought a book on essential oils and I have it all pinned up on the wall on every, and I do all my exercises at home and I'd read every single article, every single ingredient and what it did.

So that when I went to my final meeting, I knew what I was talking about sort of thing. So I bluffed my way through it completely. That's not bluffing. That is dedication. I was obsessed. Yeah. That's amazing. So you said a skipping rope. I just look at it. I was like, you know, what's that movie where the water comes down and she's a dancer.

Oh yeah. Flash dance. Yeah. I was a bit like that. Really wanting to get the job. So he made me wait for three months and then I was really prepared for my first meeting. I said, I want to make this. I want to make that. I want to make that. I want to make that. I want to do that and that and that. And he said, that'll probably work.

And I was like. Okay. So then we, we made, um, I think we made a shampoo, a conditioner, and the, the, um, Easy Rider. Wow. Wow. So that was like a, it was a shampoo for normal hair, which nobody bought.

Yeah. Yeah. nobody had normal hair. Nobody had normal hair.

It's like, oh, my hair's not normal.

Oh, they'll had an oily one and a dry one, but I didn't know to call it all the fantastic names yet.

Yeah. So I called it, Oily wash. And everyone's like, nobody bought it. And then dry wash, nobody bought it. So I didn't sell anything then. So then I had to, that was another curve. So that was another learning. Like, Oh, how do you, how do you go from A to B sort of thing? It's like, there's a million A's and there's a million B's.

And then you come across C sort of thing. So it's always a learning curve every time. All

good and well to build a beautiful product, but then you've got to brand it.

Yeah. You've got to, well, you've got to, well, I think that one of your, I was reading one of your notes, it was like a mentor sort of thing.

And I was like, we just didn't have mentors. People weren't interested in helping people. I probably think the only one who's actually really helped me would be like a Peter McDonald. Yeah. So he runs Oz there. He was the only one. Who said to me you need to make that you need to make that you need to make that sort of thing I'm like, oh finally somebody told me what I needed to do because I was just going calling things really dumb names People were using them because the products were good, but yeah, they didn't have they didn't have that hook.

Yeah So yeah, I needed someone to tell me this is what you need to do Yeah, you need to do it like that and it needs to be like that and you need to have that that that and that

Yeah,

okay. All right. Finally someone told me because nobody was You go to a department store, they wouldn't give you any information because we were selling in department stores.

Yeah.

yeah. And then, um, because I couldn't get any hair salons to buy it. So I think, so I was going, I went straight to department store, but it was not people like Myers or David Jones. It was like Barney. So like full on really high end products. But still they wouldn't tell if it didn't sell you'd have like two orders and then they would just cancel you

wow, But you'd go to a training and I don't really know what a training was Yeah, because we would just do training at in hair school sort of thing but we didn't actually know that we had to go to a Shop and train people and they said oh, can you come in for the training?

I was like, what do you mean? It's just shampoo you can Just use it. Don't you? Yeah. No, no. But then we need to be trained on it. So let's go in and train all the people sort of thing. Yeah. That's one thing I didn't realize. There's another learning curve that you had to build an education platform.

Yeah.

And now education obviously in Kevin Murphy is massive.

Massive. It's the biggest part, our biggest spend of anything that we do, because that's how we market our products. I mean, we'll market our products to hairdressers. So we really need them to understand the education because if they don't understand the education, they don't understand the product.

One thing I thought was very cool for me was, so I've had the brand now for three years. When we opened this store, I was like, I need, I have to have this on my shelf. And it felt, it definitely felt a lot more exclusive. Like I kind of chased Mm-Hmm. Kevin, which was really cool for me because I was like, no, I will fight for this.

And I did to have it in store, but I liked all the, you know, obviously the ethos around it, but also, you know, the rules behind it and the things that came with it. It also felt really special to me as a brand because it didn't just feel like I was throwing something on my shelf. And I felt really proud when I got it and when it was on my shelf and when I was allowed to like sell it because of the fact that the brand won't compromise.

Everything else for that.

I think that was, that goes all the way back to when there wasn't any products for hairdressers. That one size fits all sort of thing. I'm like, well, hairdressing is very specific. So the thing you work with one client for a very long time, you know her hair, you know her inside out, you know her whole life, he or she.

Um, you know, everything that go on, you know, everything about Mrs. Brown's children on your, everything on you, every little hair worry that she had. And then how could I then give her a product that's one size fits all. I need to really like care for your hair. It's very delicate. It's very fine. Um, not, you know, it's, it's a very, it's a shiny, it looks really good.

And I think that men have cars and women have their hair. That's how kind of important it is. Even though now men now have their hair. Yes. Cause they're really thinking about it as well. But in the olden days when everything was a lot more gender specific. It was, um, it was, that's how important your hair is to you, sort of thing, because it's your final thing.

And I know that when I'm having a bad hair day, we're actually having a bad hair day today. I actually thought it looked great, so. Ah, well I think I had to have a quick flick before I came in here. But I wasn't having a good hair day at home. I think to have a bad hair day is, you know, it's, it's not, it's not great.

If you're having a bad hair day every day, it's not fun. It's just, you're really down. And I do

say that you can be in the most glorious outfit with makeup done. If your hair looks crap, you look crap, but you could have the best hair day and be in a simple pair of jeans and a singlet. And you are on point, which is why I don't understand sometimes when people don't invest in their hair, they'll spend ridiculous amount of money on other things.

And I'm like, your hair's that first thing that everyone sees and kind of really puts you together. And when you're feeling your hair, just everything else feels like it goes as well.

And people often say like, Oh, it's the girl with red hair or the girl with blonde hair. They don't say the girl who wears the floral dresses, even though sometimes we do.

But I think it's like, it's the guy with the really short hair. You know, the girl with blue hair. So people are really defined by their hair.

Agreed. I 100 percent would say about somebody, the girl that's got the blonde hair or that short bob, you know, it's always about the hair for me. Yeah. And most people.

It's funny when you think on that. We are biased in that though. We

are a bit biased. That's the first thing that we see as well. So some of them have really nice shoes on, but I would never see them. Yeah. Agreed. Until the very end sort of thing. Agreed. Eventually I'll get down there.

Always start with the hair.

  Cause I think the real difference, and I'm sure you guys would agree that I noticed with the early parts of your story is that it was that in the early parts, like times of the industry, it was very, it was about competition. I don't want the name of your salon. I don't want that. So, whereas I think that we're definitely moving towards more of a community based feeling.

And I think that's what happens with brands like Kevin Murphy, that it's getting into. a family. So that family and that partnership with AusDead, that's really what Took your brand international, isn't it? Like gave you that boost to get out there. Do you know, I didn't realize you weren't actually a huge session stylist.

Like I thought you were like this big famous person. I was, but I had to make a decision sort of thing. So I was, I was better than most of my peers at that time. Cause I was working for like half bizarre American Vogue. I was really, it escalated very, very quickly. Like once you actually got in there, you were right in.

Cause I think that in New York, when you're hot, you're really super, super hot and everybody wants you. And then when you're not, you're super not. So you're only as good as your last job and there's always someone after your job. Um, I escalated quite quickly. And then I was, I was, I was going home one day, I was like miserable.

I was working for half of the time. I'm like, Oh, I'm so miserable. And I thought to myself. Why am I miserable? Cause I'm not enjoying where I'm working. So I'm working with evil, evil people. And that was at a time where there was no me chewing down then sort of thing. That was, people would treat them mean, keep them keen sort of thing.

And they were, the photographers were horrible people. Sometimes you're like, Oh my God, you're a really horrible person. And then, so you were, everyone you're working with, you had to be this tough person, you had to be really resilient on everything. And I got home and I slammed the door one day and I thought to myself, do I really?

I'll die here. If someone doesn't find me sort of thing, no one would even know something. You could go and work for the best magazines. You could do all those famous things. You could do all those great things, but it's like, well, what, what will happen? Nothing sort of thing. And a photographer said to me, I was doing, um, sports illustrated.

So we've got the cover of sports Illustrator, the 2000 edition, and it was Heidi Klum, uh, I've forgotten all their names now, but the big famous models, like 10 of them all standing around. And then the photographer said to me, he goes, All these girls will go home and they'll get 20, 000 a day. You'll go home.

You'll get nothing And I was like He goes, yes, they'll all, you'll go home. It'll be exactly the same for you the next day after that. And I thought, I'm going to make something out of this. And that's where beach hair was born on that particular shoot sort of thing. And so I've got that story. Like that's actually a true story about the waves and everything.

Not exactly all on that one day, but that was when I first realized that I could create that beach hair by using this particular product sort of thing. So I was just, it was actually a spray at the time, but I knew that I could actually make it and was actually made at that time. On that particular day, only because that photographer said to me, You'll get nothing.

You'll go nowhere. You won't, your life won't be any different. They'll go home and get 20, 000 that day. You're like, yeah, screw you now, mate. I am an international brand. And the courier knows who I am. And then the um, the model who made the cover, I put it on her hair, and it looked like beach hair. And I went home to my friend, Jill, who's now the editor of Harper's Bazaar here.

Um, and she was the one, I said, what did I call it? I've made this thing, it looks like beat chair. And she says, just call it beat chair. Yeah. And I was like. I remember that being the first product. I remember them coming with a box and I was away camping and it was like in the box and I was like, I'll try this.

And I tried it and I was like, Oh, I'm so hooked. And at that time my rep was working for another brand. And I was like, sorry, babe, I'm got, um, I'm all in Kevin Murphy. I'm obsessed. I need it in my life immediately. And it's funny how you use a product like something like that. And it's just like, it needs to be really straight away.

You can't. Wait for the product to work anymore. I think that's something that I've really learned as well. Like if you make a product, it has to be different the next day. As soon as you put it on, it has to be perfect. Agreed. Yep. Agreed. Cause you use a, like people say, I've tried, I've tried, I've tried.

And I can just use this. So the plumping wash for me, I use it the first time. And I was just like, This is insane. Like I'm in love and then that's when I sell it. Like, and it's even for me, I still use products. I didn't, I'd never used the Restore before. And then it was on my shelf and I used it one day and I was like, this is a game changer.

It's interesting when you use it. And for the first time, just becoming so obsessed. The Restore is a really good product too. It's a bit of a sleeper. Like the, some people are obsessed with it. Yeah, I'm obsessed with it. Yeah, I was, I was obsessed with it when I had, you know, More hair like meaning my hair was longer.

Yeah, because it was really good because it gives you that second day Yeah, almost. Yeah, so sometimes the first wash day you're a bit fluffy sort of thing, but now You know, I've got short hair, so it doesn't really matter what I use. So my son has the craziest long corkscrew curls and he's only a baby. So using that in him is just like, so it's just, and not having to use all the stuff.

And the same on my two daughters, because the girls want to wash their hair every day, but you don't want them to wash their hair every day. So something like that, I'm now just going through every client. I'm like, Take it, take it, take it. Like you just become obsessed. I always give, uh, all of my friends who've got children.

I just give them a untangled. Yeah. Yeah. So listen, just use it. Yeah. Love it. Sort of thing. Yeah. And all the little girls just go, I want the untangled because it's like tangled. And I love how we're kind of bringing up an industry of young girls now. And we've had this conversation. On the education around hair care, like, you know, mums are using it.

So we're not using the crappy stuff in our kids hair anymore. We're like straight to the really good stuff. So then they're growing up with such appreciation for their hair and their product as well. It's just, yeah, I feel quite passionate about that side of it. It's funny. There's a lot of little kids really gravitate towards the brand.

I was always really surprised. Like a lot of little boys love the styling product. They'll spend 40 minutes. Getting that one little hair sort of thing and they're like nine. I'm like, yeah, I didn't remember. I remember I brushed my hair, but then there was no products for us then. Yes. And I think the bar, like barbers have come a long way with stuff like that as well.

Like the little boys want to go in now and men are taking much more care of, as you said before, men are taking much more care of their hair and how they're looking as well. So, you know, I find men actually easier to sell to than women. Cause men are just like, Oh, she's telling me to buy it. Just tell me what to do.

Tell me how to use it. And I'll do it. I think, um, but men are also very loyal. Like we're loyal customers. So the thing, like I'll use the same product. I've been using the same conditioner for five to 10 years. So the thing, and I, I, you know, I don't think I'll ever stop using it. So I think I've got the same hair product.

I use the same thing, same haircut. Cause we're the same, same, whereas a lot more women are like changing it up. Yes. We never change it up for the things. Pants, pencil, pants. Yeah. Oh, that's what we do need to talk about. The color. Yes. When did you decide that that's where you needed to go as a brand and you branched into the color?

Well, I think that, I mean, the thing is that headdress is, That's their biggest spend, obviously. So the thing, um, you need to have the back room and the front room sort of thing. So, um, people will buy, um, like say 500 a month on average sort of thing of care products, but they'll do 6, 000 a month on color.

So colors, if you want to be serious in the industry, you've got to have color and you've got to have multiple lines of color. Like we started with, we started the wrong way sort of thing. So we started with ammonia free. PPD free everything free, um, which was great for us because it made a stand out in the marketplace But I think that as time has gone by you need you can't just give them one brand And when we first started we would sort of go into silence and we'd say listen You don't have to have instead of in addition to sort of things.

So this can be in addition to what you've got Um what we've found we've got the the calami which is all the ppd free nothing No bad smells. No, nothing not nasty for anybody really good on the hair You Bit too translucent sometimes for every single person. So now we've got gloss. I don't know if you guys got gloss.

So gloss is even more translucent, but then that's like a hybrid product. Cause that's like treatment and color mixed in one. And then we have to go that third step. And I can't talk about that right now. Bombshell. Yes, we, so we've had it. I changed over six months ago and I was with my original brand for 10 years.

So changing as a hairdresser is massive when you've got staff and stuff like that. Um, and it was actually my staff that was screaming at me and I'd been using the lighteners for about 18 months at that point. Anyway, it's almost like when you do it, you're like, why didn't I do this sooner? Because the condition for clients on their hair is.

It is just a game changer. Jen's just started using it and she's like, Oh, I Obsessed yeah, it also takes it takes good education people to teach color as well Yeah, because what we found was um when we first launched it in In this country, we, we didn't go with a thousand educators, so we went with, um, how pretty much how the distributor wanted to go with it sort of thing, because they're our customer, obviously.

Um, when we launched it in America, we've got teams of educators. We went out there like an army sort of thing. So we're taught it. Um, very precisely because Americans, they have a different training system to us sort of thing. So there'll be a year, a year at school full time. And then that's it. They're done.

Yeah. Yep. And they're like, wow, you're actually out there doing hair after one year sort of thing. And they believe that they're good enough to sort of really do it as well, which is even more scary. So we had to get them trained up really, really well sort of thing. And I think that when we brought it to Australia, we probably didn't train people as well as what we should have, sort of thing.

Because our resources were all done and we thought the Australian people would get it anyway because they're really good hairdressers. But it took us a while to go, again, go from A to B, sort of thing. So we, we probably shouldn't have launched it the way that we did here, but it's, you know, it's just taken a longer time to get there, sort of thing.

I love hearing stories like that from brands like yours that are like, yeah, we probably didn't do that the right way, but now we know how to rectify that. Like it's always so good. You don't learn by being right. Yeah. I think you only really learn by being, making a mistake. So the thing that it wasn't a big mistake, it was just like, well, we probably should have done it a different way.

So we probably should have like gone out with the army and done it. Because I think that changing color is so scary for a seller. It is so scary. Yeah. And the clients, when they come in, they go, Oh, it's different. And you're like, Oh no, it's the same. They go, no, it's different. It's a really hard hurdle to get over.

And then once you find that the ammonia free doesn't give you that full hundred and you got those clients who are coming in and they want a hundred percent coverage and you're like it's 99. Yeah. It's really, it's really translucent sort of thing. So it's getting over that hurdle. And as you said, It's like working out some brands are really concrete coverage and, but you know, Jen and I have had this discussion, Jen can't handle it.

Like she's, I hate, cause I am like white and I hate that full cover. I hate it because that line you get, and that's what I love about the translucent cut. I don't think it's translucent. I don't think it is either. I still think it's dimensional coverage. No, no, no. I hate it. We've got quite a lot of client we look after and clients that we look after.

And it's just, even for our clients, like my mom, for example, she's every three, four weeks and she now can go every six because it's just not that long. I remember friends, like when I was, you know, working to sell on coloring hair, I'd say, Don't comb it through, don't ever comb that through, sort of thing.

And they always go, just need to freshen up the ends. I'm like, don't let them freshen up the ends, because you're going to go really dark. You just freshen the roots, you don't need to freshen the rest of it. I think that with the colouring, you can freshen the ends. You definitely can. Because it's a lot lighter, sort of thing.

And I think that with the gloss, again, that's that, Because we had to really recognize that the industry's changed as well. The people, the way people color their hair is a lot different. When I was, well, we were just all tints or C10 actually was our biggest thing. Cause I was a Swatchcoff salon and, um, well, not my salon, the one I worked at.

And so everybody, no matter who you were. Black, white, in between brown, everyone had C10 highlights. It was C10 was like Arctic silver blonde. Yeah, one size fits all. And that's what everyone had, whereas now. You have like five or six different colors on your head at the one time. Yeah, absolutely. And it takes you five hours to get your hair done.

And you only come every, once every 12 months. Yeah, 12 weeks. I think for us too, it, the brand is so diverse. And the thing that's been really exciting for me with my team is watching them be really creative. When you're with a brand for as long as we have, you kind of get really stuck in the this and this, this and this.

Whereas when we came over to the color, Yeah. None of us use the same colors. Like we're all always picking different things and then we're always like, Oh my goodness, look at what that gave. And I think it forces you to be a colorist again. Yeah, yeah, it really does. And having those different options and yeah, but you can just, and also for me opening this watch book and being like, I can play with that and I can put that in it.

Bravo. Thank you. I didn't do it by myself sort of thing. So I think what you'll find is when you. Go to try and make a color. Like the work that goes in it beforehand is absolutely ginormous. I didn't realize how, because every single color has to have its nuance put in it. So they said, what you do is you'll go when you're actually buying a color.

So you'll go to the factory or wherever you're going to, you'll have a base. Colour range, but then you have to pick all the nuances of every single tone sort of thing. So every single one tone has to be tested 100 times. Like it's really, really involved sort of thing. I didn't realise, I was like, can't you just make it like that?

And they're like, yeah, we can, but you need to test it. I'm like, Oh, I don't really know the difference between a good one or a bad one. Yeah. Even trying to wrap my head around that makes me go, Oh my God, how does that work? I don't know how they do it sort of thing, but they do it. They're always testing, they're always doing something.

Like, when I speak to Kate, who's our colour director, she's always testing something. Are you actively involved in the process of making something? Like, like, making, developing colours and stuff? Um, I have to be guided by somebody, sort of thing. Like, they'll tell me what, they, I need them to tell me what they need.

I'm really good at putting a bow on something. I'm really good at making an actual care product, but when it comes to color products, that's not my area of expertise. So I need to be told, I know what I like and what I don't like sort of thing, but I wouldn't know how to tell you how to get there. Like I don't know.

I don't know, like it's, you know, 8. 23. I don't know if it needs anything more in it. I'm like, Oh, does it need a 0. 16 or I'm like, that's a very gray. So I'm really needs to be guided by the people who are really good at it. I love that though. I love that. You're like, I just am open to be guided. And like, that's, that's great.

So special in a brand I think that you really need to be because you can't again You can't be a jack of all trades sort of thing So I can make a great color whip up a gorgeous little shampoo and conditioner I can do a fantastic styling product, but I can't I can't create a new haircut. Yeah I need someone to tell me how to create a new haircut.

And every time I do a new haircut, I've got to go back to the computer and look at all the sectioning patterns. Even to this day, I'm like still sectioning sort of thing. You know, cause we've got one guy, Pascal, he's an amazing hairdresser. He does, he's the most amazing shapes, but it's just, it's all new to me.

So the thing, so I can't just do what I used to do. I've got to go back and like the sectioning and the way that he. I'm like, that's really smart sort of thing, but I really need him to tell me, I don't know. I can tell what I like. So the thing I can say, I want it to be groovy looking or this or that, whatever, but I can't tell you how to make a haircut.

Wow. Can I ask, obviously this brand is. Massive international you've done so incredibly. How do you feel like that has impacted you personal life wise or has it all just meshed or? Well, it didn't, it took a long time to get used to it sort of thing, but I had, I've got some very good guidance from a very long time ago.

So I used to work with Kylie Minogue. She's like super uber famous now, but she wasn't that sort of famous then. But I remember her going through. All of the processes, like, you know, the meet and greet, who to like talking to people, what, how to be with people, because sometimes people can be very overwhelming and you can be like, Whoa, they can freak me out sort of thing.

So she really taught me how to be a person in public eyes sort of thing, but just by watching the way that she was and, you know, she's quite shy sort of thing. So. Yeah. Um, she doesn't really want to give a lot sort of thing, but she has to give a lot because people are taking a lot from her. And the way that she would conduct herself was like, okay, I've really learned a lot how to conduct myself through her, not guidance, but just watching her move around the room and how she does things and very much really calm, very not, you know, overexcited, not get weird with people.

You can't be weird with anybody. Yeah. It can always just be. forgiving and just think well imagine them imagine me in their shoes sort of thing just say okay All right We'll just call it sort of thing a little bit now and we'll just go through but I think Only overwhelming when we go to the shows because there's too many people.

I can't like always like hey Yeah, can't be in that many photos. Yeah Yeah, that is but you've got to be you've got to be in the photos So I think you've got to give them that one or two minutes of your time And that will last them for a lifetime. Incredible. That's really grounded because I think clearly that's the mindset that's kept you as Kevin Murphy, the person, you know, and not getting lost in Kevin Murphy, the brand.

Well, I think that I'd never. Never got lost in the brand because it would just come from really normal and humble things, sort of things. So I came from a salon, you know, I had clients. It was, we didn't begin, I didn't begin as a platform hairstyle. So I didn't begin as one of those giants of the industry.

Yeah. I, I, no one knew who I was. And like, every time I would go to a meeting, like when, uh, with our first distributor, they go, no one knows who you are. And I'm like, Great. Yeah, that's fantastic. So the thing, so, um, but that needed to change, like I really had to sort of get out there and really let people know that, you know, I did, uh, I did have a great career and I was a good hairdresser sort of thing, but, uh, like a lot of people think a lot of people thought I didn't know how to cut hair and I'm like, Well, how can I be a hairdresser and not know how to cut hair?

And they go, do you cut hair? I was like, yeah. Cause I was styling hair on the, with the show. So you're not exactly cutting on stage, but I'm showing them how to use products and stuff like that. So they didn't think that I could cut hair. Yeah. I was like, I do know how to cut hair. From simple beginnings.

So that was quite funny. But, um, I think it's just also, um, Having that training with all the celebrities and things like that, that was really good way to know how to navigate yourself around stuff sort of thing. And I think that people, uh, people just get really excited about things. And I think that you just got to just be cool sort of thing and just be, be yourself sort of thing.

Cause I remember, you know, We had, uh, one lady who kept on giving us, um, advice on skills when you get up on stage. What are those skills? Presentation skills. Yeah. And then she gave me some really good advice. She said, just be yourself sort of thing. She said, you've got to tell them what you're going to tell them.

Then you tell them what you're telling them, and then you're going to tell them what you told them. So you just put those three, yeah, just do those three things and it always works out sort of thing. What does and remember but you're gonna be behind yourself. You can't let someone do the speeches for you.

Yeah Make the products for me. I've got to know them. Yeah Are you innately quite an introverted person? I'm just kind of quiet. So yeah, yeah, but I wouldn't say introverted But like I don't like I I wouldn't like to have a birthday party. I would like to seek out a crowd Oh, no, I don't seek out a crowd. I love you being part of the crowd You I'm a really good guest.

I'm a terrible host. If that makes it simpler. Yeah. What does a day in the life look like now for Kevin Murphy? Well, it varies. It varies. It varies a lot. About sort of five or six years ago, they'd said to all of the directors of the company, you need to do succession planning. So you've got to teach, you've got to train the person who's going to, um, Uh, replace you sort of thing.

Oh my goodness. It's like the Royal family, the heir or the spare. But everybody, everyone was, everyone was tasked in doing that. So I had to find someone who can make products, someone who can pick colors, someone who can pick shapes, someone who can do hair, someone who can do all those things that didn't all happen with one person.

So I got about sort of five or six different people. So then I've, I've done my succession planning. And then now I'm like, what do I do? So there's someone to do every facet of my job. But then now they're like, Oh, but we sort of need you against because they're sort of pushing me out going because they don't want me to die They want me to fall off a bus or you know, whatever sort of thing.

So they're really nervous about that Um, but now they're going well, can you come back now? And i'm like, oh god, i'm sort of used to not doing anything Yeah, and then now i've got to do stuff again. Yeah, I think so. It's um, it's interesting. I'm For me, what they like me to do is they like me to go away and just make stuff.

Yep. And then when they're ready, they'll call me. So the thing, so I just go and make stuff all day long. Like I just make products. So you're still making stuff? Like you're still testing something right now. I'm actually testing something for another, for a friend of mine, for another brand. Um, but I've been doing it.

I'm like, yeah, I really liked it. What I've been helping him develop it sort of thing. So, um, what I'm good at is speaking to the people who work in the lab sort of thing. So I'm good at talking to them so I can get it pretty quickly. Um, what you find is when you're in a big company, it's, there's a lot of voices, a lot of, and there's a lot of compromise sort of thing.

So when you're just one person, there's no compromise. Mm-Hmm, . So what they do is I just say, can I, I just wonder how can I make something like that? And they'll go, yeah, go on, sort of thing. So I'll go off and make it, and then I, I'm making these particular, I'm making these two particular products, which are really good.

And then I'm like, oh, I wanna make them for my brand now. So how do I get them for my brand? So all I do is just make products. So it's fantastic. Andrew photoshoots and Andrew, like, you know, all that sort of stuff and, you know, concepts and shows and things like that. But I think that my main focus is it used to be more about being on stage, telling people about it, but now there's plenty of people to be on stage.

Now I need to just actually make the product. And that's where your passion lies, right? So you kind of come back to the roots of like what you love the most. Back to the back room with the armpit hair. Except there's now it's a vial sort of thing, now it's a little sample bottle. Oh, I've got visions of you in a white jacket.

With your glass. Someone's in a white jacket. Yeah. Someone is in a white jacket sort of thing. I think that the fragrance is for me, really the fun part as well. I still see, I'm still imagining you in your house with all these little bottles. That's where my head goes. Well, there are. I was still, I was still in that house with all the little bottles.

There's like a ton of bottles everywhere all the time. But um, I think that, um, I really enjoy actually making it sort of thing. That's my, my one sort of passion that I really, really love. Like everything else can be a bit sort of scary sometimes. Like you do the photo shoots, you've got to. The photo shoots cost a fortune sort of thing.

So you're spending so much money sort of thing. And you've got really trying to get everything for a dime and everything's really, really expensive and you've got to. You've got to come home with the bacon. So it's kind of stressful, especially when, um, someone does the hair and then it's not right. I'm like, that hair's not right.

And they go, Oh yeah, it is. I'm like, no, it's not, and they go, you have to go back and do it again. And that's going to take you another three hours to come back and do it again. And that's, I think it's, I think it's basically one model costs 5, 000 an hour. So the thing says you've got six models. You're spending 30, 000 an hour, sort of thing, so you really need, that's when you bottle it all up together, sort of thing.

So you really need to make sure that every minute counts. Yep. And so you, and also, It's stressful for people as well. So they don't really, they get nervous about stuff. So you're going to be really calm and go, okay, just going to go back. And if you can just go and fix that little bit underneath there and then do it really fast.

Because you're costing me a lot of money every second. And you can't, but you can't put that pressure on them. You can't say to them you're costing money sort of thing. But when the accountants come to me, they go, you spent that much. And I'm like, huh? And I didn't come back with anything. Yeah, we had one girl.

She didn't. Her hair didn't look good for the whole day. A whole day of nothing out of her. So then go back, go back, go back, come back later, go back. And I was like, I had to speak to the hairdresser and say, listen, that just costs like, you know, 20 grand. You, cause you couldn't get a hair right. So then he was like, Oh, but it was pretty stressful.

So the thing is you really needed her, um, in the campaign. So it was very, very important, but. You know, what can you do? That's a testament to your values and the way that you treat people though, that you can still see that that's a person that needs kindness and understanding, even though they've been costing everybody a lot of money, rather than just barraging and yeah.

Well, if you've barraged them, you're just going to get nowhere. I mean, nobody really likes to be told off. No one really likes to not do a good job. People want to do a good job and just, and you can't really say you've just done a terrible job. Because they're just gonna feel worse and it's not gonna help them next time either They're gonna come back like or more nervous and haven't done the job properly Hmm, we had one guy who just could never do the underneath of the hair I'd be like no you need to do the underneath and he's like was just on top I'm like, you don't need to do it that fast, but I'm got a wind machine I'm blowing all the hair and see all the underneath so it doesn't look the same as the hair on top and he went I think we're getting close to our time.

Okay. I want to know Kevin Murphy, the man, what do you, so we know all about obviously your, um, where you've gone professionally. What are your favorite things to do not to do with that? Hair or the brands. Who are you when you're just at home? Um, I don't know who I am when I'm on the road, because I don't really, it's not, it's been working for, I think having a brand, being on the road, doing all that stuff for so long, you sort of forget.

And then someone said to me, Oh, what are your hobbies? And I, cause you know, I'm getting sort of ready to retire. Cause I'm only four years away from actually retiring sort of thing. And then I'll be like, well, what am I going to do? Still make products, still be making products, but then I look at people.

And then they're like, they're 76 or 72 and they're still working and they're exhausted. I'm like, well, I want to start enjoying my life sort of thing. My day consists of like going to the gym in the morning, going for a swim, feeding the dogs. It's taking them for a walk, having a coffee, and then it all sort of starts and people start calling sort of thing.

But I love that. That's the perfect start of my day. I would froth on that start of the day. Like, yeah, it is quite nice. I mean, I was lucky not to have children. People say, sorry, people who've all got children, there's a lot between us. We're all like, yeah, that was, that was a good choice. A friend of mine says to me, she goes, don't have children because as they get pregnant Bigger, their problems get bigger.

Yeah.

And this is it. Cause Luis, my partner, he wanted to have children. I'm like, Oh, I can just see myself. Like he'll get the baby. He'll be bored with it in one hour. And then I'll be like on the phone. One of you on the phone, one of you doing a typewriter and then having a baby. So it's bad enough with the two dogs, because he's like, Oh, I just couldn't possibly walk them.

I'm like, no, they need to be walked. Otherwise they're going to get, they're going to go insane sort of thing. So what type of dogs have you got? Um, two French bulldogs. Oh, I've got a Frenchie too. Oh, they're cute aren't they? They're the best. They are lots of fun. They, one, one poor little lolly. She's a bit neurotic sort of thing.

She's on Prozac at the moment. Yeah. So, and then Louie's one year old. And he's just a, the most needy dog you've ever met in your entire life. So you don't need children. You've got two dogs that are like needy and neurotic, kind of like our children. But they're not going to start speaking to me. They're not going to answer me back.

True. And then they're never going to hate me. They're always going to love you. So 20 years, 20 years. I know. Who, who would have thought we never thought that we would in our wildest dreams. get to even one year. I think we were two years in, we'd made nothing. So I think we'd made no money. We were just all in debt.

Like I was living in someone's laundry. We had no one had any money. We were just like trying to work things out sort of thing. And then we almost gave up, but then just from that Danish customer, soon as they said, Oh, we love it sort of thing. We're all like, Oh, so someone loves it sort of thing. Cause people weren't loving it in the beginning.

So it wasn't like anything else. Yeah. That's been really good, but bad sort of thing. So just a longer journey, but better once you get there sort of thing, like more. It was good to know, like I got one of my business partners coming out from England next week and he says, it's good to know that someone's actually liking it.

Yeah. Yeah. There's lots of people that are absolutely loving it. And I think. From my perspective, you're so humble and so graceful. How could this brand not absolutely like, it doesn't happen on your own sort of thing. It's not just me. I'm not out there churning butter out the back. If you know what I mean?

So someone, there's a lot of help sort of thing. There's a lot, lot, lot of help, like a ton of help. No, it's true though. It's true though. I can't do it without Thomas. Can't do it without anybody. Yeah. Can't do it without anyone helping. They have to work out how to, how to do it. And, you know. I mean, I could name a million names sort of thing right now, but I don't have a million names up my sleeve sort of thing.

But it does take a lot of people to make one bottle of shampoo. This has just made me love the brand that much more. Oh, it really has. It really, really has. And we don't, we're not allowed to know the exciting next step that's just coming. Well, the next step will be revealed at the show. So by the time this actually goes to air, we will know what the next step is.

Yes. And it begins with C and ends with R. Excellent. Okay. We've got it. You heard it first here guys. It's the next part of the journey sort of thing, but it's going to be, it's going to be our, it's our biggest. Most ambitious thing yet So can't talk about it though, okay That's fine. Thank you. I can't thank you enough for taking your time.

You obviously a very busy man and The fact that we got to sit down with you has been just it was perfect It was the perfect timing because I was I was on my way up to Brisbane anyway as that's changed the thing But now it's perfect. So now I'll just go home And I'll be, um, on my way out to Brisbane tomorrow instead.

I love that even more. I love that you're just like Live in Byron and I just like I just can picture it all now. I love it. It's nice. I'm happy to live there Yeah, best thing I ever did home to walk the dogs instead They've already had their walk. I've already done all that this morning The good thing about living in New South Wales, but working in Queensland you get an extra hour You basically made time today.

We made time. So I left the time I had to arrive sort of thing So even when I'm getting on an airplane, it's like it's a 6 a. m. Flight, but I can leave at 6 So I'm glad Queensland doesn't do daylight savings, every Queenslander is not wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today. My pleasure. Thanks.

So very grateful. Thanks for giving me the time to tell you the truth. It's been fun. Just talking about yourself. It's not that hard. That's why we have a podcast. Um, yeah, you guys are going to love this. So let's sign off now. Thank you. Enjoy. Thanks everybody. Bye.