Salon Rising: The Podcast

transcript

Hey lovers, just a quick one. If you listen to us and you love us, could you please hit that subscribe button? I know it's a pain, but that little button means the world to us and our podcast and means that we can get more great guests on like we know you guys love listening to. So.  Do a girl a favour, hit subscribe, and we would be so grateful.

Welcome back Samara. Episode three, here we go.  Crazy. I know and this one we're winging again.  Just on the fly. On the seat of our pants, holding them for a dear life. Is that the right analogy? I think there's a, I think we squeezed a few in there.  Sure.  Um, how's your week been, Jen?  It's,  there was a rollercoaster incident.

I'm trying to be a good parent. It's a whole situation. That's for another podcast though.  The parenting podcast. Yeah. And, and you? Uh, look, it's been a ride. I have a kid that doesn't sleep. Like the 4am wake up is not it for me.  But, you know, I had a weekend away last weekend with my best friends and it was like the greatest weekend ever.

We drank so much and just talked and laid on beaches and no children. It was just like a whole cup fill. situation. It sounds like a vibe. It was a vibe. It was so good. I thoroughly suggest this to anyone that needs a moment, book a weekend with the cup fillers and go away with them because yeah, it was, it was the whole thing was amazing. 

So this week, this week we decided we wanted to talk about like old, old school versus new school in the ways of salons and how crazy it's evolved since you and I are huge, like Like we met what 18 years ago and the difference between running a salon or being a salon manager or being in the industry now to what it was then and like the dramatic differences we've seen and how we're navigating that, I guess.

Absolutely. Well, even like I was thinking about it before today, like I even noticed a huge difference within the industry. When, when we met, I had moved from New Zealand and the industry that I experienced when I was working there, as opposed to the industry that I came into when I moved here was very, very different.

Like navigating that was so In what ways? Between countries? Yeah, hugely, hugely. And I don't know if that came down to just  the company that I worked for or, um,  the industry as a whole, because obviously I only experienced working within Queensland, hadn't worked anywhere else, but it was It was a completely different ball game, completely different ball game to be working in.

So, yeah, and then to look at that and where that's evolved to, to where, like the salon where we first met,  to the salon that you have now. Oh, just poles apart. Poles apart of how things have changed. So what would you say your main, the main changes were from working in New Zealand back then? And this was 18 years ago to coming to work in Australia.

What differences did you see there? I don't know if it was between countries. I think it was just between like the For one thing, I got paid really differently. So I got paid heaps more in New Zealand than I did when I first moved to Australia. Um, but that was partly down to the fact that I worked on a commission only basis in New Zealand.

So like I reaped my own rewards. Whereas when I moved to Australia, um, it was, you know, like I just worked as you had a wage and, um, bonus type structure, but then  I had also worked for a company where like you had to compete once a year in a photographic competition and, or a like on the floor, like, um, catwalk type competition. 

Yeah. And then, and it was different that is even now, like, yeah, it's not a, like, even if we talk into awards, like they have, it's just kind of not a thing anymore. I think social media.  like came in and blew that shit out the water because you could see like you see it all it's so readily available yeah whereas at that time it wasn't yeah it was just how you got your photographic work out yeah whereas even now like they obviously still have all the awards going but I Um, and look, I, I went in, I've gone in one my entire career and that was for salon design when we, um, created our new store and we got into the finals, we didn't win.

And I think a lot of it, I don't, I can't speak, I don't want to blow this up, but a lot of it now is down to what photographers you have, who writes your submission for you, all of these things that. It is why it's judged like that. And if you look at it, so many of the same people are in it every single year.

And also what merit does it have these days? Yeah. Agreed. What merit does it have for you to say, I have been voted the best hairdresser in Queensland when maybe there was only 50 people that actually entered. So awards used to be huge and now they just don't matter anymore. Absolutely. Because you just didn't have that.

avenue like we do now where you could get your work out. Yeah. You know, which is just makes it so much easier. You have that direct contact. Yeah. With the people that you're trying to reach that you didn't have before. And then interesting enough too, I, so when we opened La Sorella, we had all those little awards of Gold Coast Best Hairdresser and newspapers and, and I would always strive for them because I, you know, I am competitive and I think all it brought me was crazy.

Like none of it. Some real crazies that came from those awards. None of it brought me any goodness to it. So I ended up having to be like, why am I doing this? I'm doing this completely from ego because I need, I love the idea of being considered that. And I started to go, you know what? I'm not even entering anymore.

Let's not do it. I put so much pressure on me and then I would feel a sense of lack if I didn't get it. And then I would be judging myself against that. And also what.  makes me the best hairdresser on the Gold Coast. Like I'm good at what I do and I look after my clients and I'm the best for them. Yeah.

But this whole idea of the award. Well, it's, it goes against this whole, um, it goes against the whole culture that you  really have created in that whole sense of community over competition. You know what I mean? Like it really is the opposite of that.  And interesting. There was another one that was the other day, someone sent me a email literally only like a couple of weeks ago saying like  Gold Coast best hairdresser and I opened it and it was like pay this much money and you can go in it.

And I was like, what the fuck is the point of that? Like, and also not authentic to me at all. Yeah. So why would I do it? Well, not authentic at all. And also you brings the crazies, but this says you're the best. So if you don't give me my version of the best.  Yeah. How is this going to work? The whole language of it is  detrimental.

Kind of really high. Agreed.. All right. So that's a difference. Step one. I didn't even know where that was going, but I like it.  Um, I feel like another huge one is social media.

Yeah. So obviously when you and I started social media was not a thing. Nope. And I think that social media brings.  So much goodness, but at the same time can be quite poisonous at times as well, because I think we really compare  ourselves to other people's journeys and not feeling good enough and not doing enough and being enough.

But then on the other hand, nothing has built our business like social media has.  So it's an interesting battle that I find with social media because on the other hand, it also is that whole staffing issue that you have with social media. It's, you know, these days, if you have staff and they can take clientele, it's just like at a press of a button, it's a post. 

And, um, you can lose so many clients because they've moved out on their own. So it's that whole debate of, do your staff have their own social media pages? Do you do it through a business? What feels comfortable for you? Where does it sit? Even that's evolved so much. You think about in the beginning, everyone having their own individual pages, whereas  that's not as big a thing now, is it?

It isn't. It isn't. It, and yeah, I guess for me, so when we speak into that, when social media became  massive. Yeah. And we had our Lazzarella page. I used to have individual accounts and I felt like I got burnt twice with it. Yeah. And it wasn't even that. It also just made me feel wasn't even about getting burnt because I still have very close relationships with everybody who's left the salon.

Um, It was, I felt anxious and uncomfortable all the time. I would question every post, everything everyone was doing. I would look into everything. And I realized for me as a business owner and my anxiety, it just wasn't healthy for me to have individual pages. And it felt more aligned.  for all my family to be in the one place where it wasn't like this person's work is better than that person's work and you should only come to this stylist.

It's very much in our salon you don't need to ring and say who's the best because my stylists are all the best. It's that, again, community over competition. Yeah. And that individual page kind of just does  spark that. Yeah, even between my stylist. But all, you know, other salons do it really well and it works for them because at the same time it also brings a wider audience. 

to the salon because there's multiple pages. But I think even if you guys are thinking into it, it's just like, as a salon owner, how does it make you feel? And I made that decision and Jen watched me make that decision based on the fact that it didn't make me feel good. Like I felt very anxious all the time.

I questioned everything. And so for me not having that pressure and it's being my salon, it's kind of what worked and my girls were good with it. I find the whole social media  like as a whole. quite anxiety driving. Like just that, like, what about things like, you know, the DMs and the why didn't you get back to me in 35 seconds and stuff like that.

Like, cause I find that  for long, you know, like again, that's something that was different because it was just one number that you had to ring and if they didn't answer, you had to wait until someone was there. And now it's just like this whole. Expectation of demand  24 seven, well, even with that, we don't have a landline anymore.

We have a mobile and so many salons now are text only salon. Because I get that because it's hard to have someone on the phone all the time. But even that's changed, you know, it was always just ring and make an appointment, but now it's like you can text at any time. And I think for me, it's like the strong boundaries around the text at any time.

Oh, same. I like, I prefer that.  What makes me anxious is the  hello? Question mark. Oh, mate. Like they've sent a message and you haven't got back to him on a Sunday night. And it's like, hello? Question marks. Anyone going to get back to me? It's like, no, Sharon, it's fucking five AM on a Monday morning. You're going to have to wait. 

And that is a hard struggle. And I think that we're also learning. boundaries. Yeah. You know, it's for so long we've gotten back to every DM that's come through. I remember one night I got a DM for an appointment at like midnight and I think I texted her back the next morning at like 8am. She's like, Oh, it's fine.

I already booked.  What? Yeah. I actually remember that and it's like, who  answered you at that time and how are their boundaries? It was potentially the online booking too, so, oh yeah. It's also coming into looking at That's true online bookings. And do you have availability to fill, like having your online bookings that someone can go on and just decide, oh yeah, that works for me.

Yeah, and also it's important because, do you like online book, online booking? I do. I do like online bookings. I think it can be tricky in my. in our industry in hair because it will be like bigger appointments and sometimes you need to shuffle things around to make it work. So it's not always the online bookings won't always create what you need, but in the industry of brows and lashes where they go, it's exactly an hour,  it's exactly an hour and a half.

It's like, These girls are what they're working off online bookings because you can see to the actual like completely what exactly they need. Whereas with us, if, if it's a half head or a quarter head or, and then you need to process for an hour, it gets a little bit trickier, but I do like the online bookings because I know that's how I like to buy.

Oh, I like to make, yeah.  will always get an online booking. Yep. If you can't book online, I'm not going to do it any other way. I know what I mean. So I think that's why also that text is so important because I always say like, if you can't find an appointment online, Just give me a text or send me a DM, but I've had to set some pretty strong boundaries pretty much in myself.

So for me, again, I don't have the work mobile phone anymore. The cool thing about the work mobile phone is I still have a landline, but the landline gets diverted to the mobile. So we can either use the mobile or we can use the landline and a lot of our.  Funny enough, a lot of our information comes out of that.

Even though we have a computer system, the computer system is expensive. Very expensive. To text message out of, whereas your own mobile phone, it costs you nothing. So for me, I prefer to use, if I've got a receptionist and she's got time, I prefer to actually use our mobile phone to kind of communicate with people and confirm and to be able to like,  you know, use more than 150 characters or something.

That's what it is now still in the stupid computer systems. They're like, you can only use this many characters. So you're back to like writing. How are you are with an R, you with a U, like I got to fit in as many frigging characters as I possibly can. But when we use our mobiles, we can kind of text out as much as we, we would like, and we can give more information and things like that.

Yeah. So we have a lot of like text templates, but it all sits on the phone. The cool thing about us then having the phone is when we're not there, my manager, she does all the appointments on a Monday. So again, it just takes that pressure off. I don't have to think about it. Yeah.  But then we do have, we used to not reply, remember when DMs came out on Instagram and we used to be like, we don't reply to this, but now we actually write, we don't reply to Facebook DMs because I can not.

And this is where you guys need to work out what suits best for you and your business. But I can't get back to you, texts, calls, emails. Instagram DMs, FaceTime, the face DMs, fucking carrier pigeon, you know, like,  I just like faxes. Like, it's just too many. There are too many things, too many balls in the air.

Yeah. It's, it's just too easy for something to slip through the gaps. Exactly right. So I actually have in the last couple of weeks deleted email as well. Oh, that's such a good idea. Because it's too much. I don't have time to write you an email about your appointment. I'm already doing DMs and texts and calls.

So, the cool thing about having a mobile is you can see when someone's rung. If you can't answer it, there's always going to be a track record. So, we ring back all our missed calls. So, that's a really good one because you don't ever miss anyone. You can call them back. Or we just send them a text message saying, Hey, we're not on the phone today, but if you send a message, we can look into whatever you need and we can get back to them at the time that suits us as well.

But even with DMs, I used to be on La Sorella's DM, like it was like my main thing, but now stepping out of it and being in Salon Rising, I don't go on it as much. And I think that again, creating those boundaries of being like, we will get back to you, but it's not going to be at 5 p. m. on a Saturday afternoon because yeah, we have lives. 

I'm glad you said it because that's what I was thinking. Yeah, because it can't, you can't be accessible at all times. It think then the business starts to run you instead of you running your business. Yeah. Something I wanted to touch on because we were kind of talking about this before and I think it's really interesting, um,  is product and suppliers  and how that has changed.

Because  I, I mean, I remember when you were first starting your salon and you were looking At what product lines you were going to use and, you know, like these big names, you know, the big names where they had the monopoly on the market. Right. And it's just like, I can't get this person to ring me back.

They're just so annoying. No one wanted anything to do with me. Yeah. Whereas to then go, you know, and I think this applies with retail companies as well, because there's been such an expansion and you know, some of the big companies  took their things into supermarkets, but that's another conversation.  To then go and work with a company like Haircare that is Australian owned and family owned.

And, you know, makes you feel like part of a family as well. Instead of just another number. You know, do you remember what it was like trying to just get, you know, education or something for one of those? I remember the first company I worked with. I've worked with,  when I very started, I had this tiny, I worked with the tiny little company and it was because Jeremy, our,  Rep that used to look after Stephens, then started, had this company.

And I was like, for me, it's all about familiar, like millularity.  Is that word? It's a word. Have I said it right? Yeah. Okay. Excellent.  Sorry. I went with him because it was comfortable. That brand wasn't. Big enough for what I needed. So when I opened La Cerella, I went with this huge company and again, I was trying to get all these other companies to look at me and no one wanted a bar of me.

This tiny little salon, we don't want a bar of you now, you know, no, like no one called me back. It was like, I spent, spent. I remember with the company that I ended up going with. And the only person I ever saw was my rep. And that's what I just thought was normal. I never saw a color educator. I never saw anything else to do with the company.

And at that point I was so young and I just felt like I worked for that company instead of that company working for me. And then when I had my massive.  breakdown, epiphany, everything changed. I, one of my closest friends, who's still a very close friend now was the educator for Haircare Australia. And I remember ringing her and just saying, I think I need a change.

Like, I think I need to jump in and make the change. And she said to me like, okay, like, let's like, how about you try Lakme and see what you think. And I tried it and I loved it. We all loved it immediately. And.  I remember she was like, let's go for dinner. And we went for dinner and she explained to me the company.

Like she said, you know, like it's a mom and dad and their sons and like explain the company to me. So instantly I started being like, okay, this feels right because I'm all about community. And I wanted to feel a part of something. And then it just changed my life. You know, working with haircare really did show me what it was like to have a company That supported you rather than you supporting a company and just being a number and just being a number.

I became a human and a business and they were proud of me and they would see my success and help me build and, and you could have like conversations about building and stuff. And potentially this was there, but it wasn't there for this little salon that no one cared about back then. And now you have people knocking down my door, wanting to work with me. 

And still my, I guess my loyalty is with this company that still supported, has still supported me even when I was only two people, you know, and now Haircare is one of our sponsors for our podcast. Which is so cool. The coolest because they've seen that and supported my journey and again, still are seeing me.

Yes. So I think even working with corporations now to working back then, it used to be very much like buy your stock. Um, you know, these are the deals we'll give you now. I don't, I don't even think I look at the deals. It's like, who am I, what humans am I conversing with? Like, how can you be a part of my world?

And you know, I've got educate like head educators that I'm close to. I know the whole company. I remember going to an event when Wilder was just brand new and there was a guy who had started working with the company and didn't know me and ever, I was talking to everyone. And then afterwards he said,  Um, he goes, Oh, I needed to know who you were because I thought you'd worked here for a point because you know everybody.

But for me, the importance of feeling a part of a company  is massive. So even the difference in those companies from where I started to where I am now is, it was, it's chalk and cheese, you know, and I thoroughly recommend to anyone, you need to look at those values and what's important to you and still stepping into that.

Um, you know, so that you can feel if your thing is community and feeling a part of something, I want to walk into a cafe and everyone know my name and know what coffee you want and know what coffee I want. That's important to me. So having a company that is the same way was important to me. So, but you know, again, you learning these from back then, I didn't know that that's what I needed and now I do.

Yeah. So yeah,  again, but yeah, even with, I think social media again, Like all, so much of my business comes from social media because they see us, but social media has pivoted in a way that's gone from like, we just used to post a photo to now real. It's gotta be. It's good. Yeah. It's the whole thing, right?

Like it's real or video or no one, like I would, I've, I showed you the stats on a photo. It's like, 60 people liked it. If I show you the stats on a stupid video where I'm being an absolute dickhead, it's got like 11, 000 views.  Like  it's ridiculous. So you feel like you've now, you're not just a hairdresser who takes photos of hair. 

You're now a monkey,  a performing  monkey that does stupid shit. To show the world who you are, but that's what builds my business because  we, and don't get me wrong, I actually love doing it. Thank God. But. You know, we have people say to us, I come to you because I watched this stupid reel you did singing Lizzo and we thought it was funny.

So we decided to come to you.  But for me, that's showing our culture. So it, if it feels like work, I would suggest not to do it and to show up in an authentic way. Exactly. Cause not everyone is going to be. Authentic as a monkey with a drum, but you look at the things that content that you look, look at.

And it's like Boho blonde in Perth, like her content is exceptional. Like her photos are exceptional. Her videos are exceptional. Her reels are hilarious. I love listening to her voice. She's so real. But then on the flip side of that, it does make you judge yourself that you're not being good enough.

You're not putting up enough. It's that whole You're not doing enough. Social media, the light and dark of it, right? I know. You're not, like, I'm, I'm not being, my work is not good enough or, but I think we needed to, we really do need to pull it back in sometimes and go,  who, who  is this for? Like is this for other hairdressers or is this for? 

My clients,  because if you want clients, you need that, you need to make sure that content is for clients and every now and then throw something out there that's a bit funny, but like, I still know the content that we create is because it's for the clients. So it's like, how can we still give tips and stuff like that in that fun way, but still also be giving them.

What they need and not other hairdressers looking at our business, because I also realized for a time there I needed to stop following any. hairdresser, even if I thought they were amazing, that made me feel shit about myself. And they didn't make me feel shit about myself. I made me feel shit about myself because I was judging and like comparing.

And until I could work on that,  I was like, you know, they say if I'm jealous of someone, it's just because I got, I want something that they have.  I want the talent they have or I want the confidence they have or so I needed to stop and go, okay, what makes this feel icky for me? And it's generally most of the time because I'm jealous of something.

Yeah. And again, if I know that it's not healthy for me, I was like, I have to pull back and I have to not, not be feeling my head with stuff that makes me feel like I'm comparing myself to others. And it's so,  it's so evident in our business in this salon world.  You look at different brows or look at different lashes or different hair and are you looking at the total experience and are you looking at what you're giving your client or are you just snapshot?

Snapshot. Yeah. Yeah. Snapshot.  Okay. 

Marker

So maybe let's.  Pivot now and have a little look at staff.  Oh, the difference between being a staff member  18 years ago to what it is like now. Yes. Mate, sick days.  If I was sick at  that salon we worked at. Do you remember the scary people, like they used to have the most scary people that were in the company that you had to ring?

Yep.  Because it was just like that, just laying the gauntlet of terror that you had to go through if you were sick. No one ever called in sick. No one ever called in sick. Yeah. Because if you were to call in sick  You would just make feel so shit about it. So shit! Yeah. So, so shit. And look, as an employer, is it fun paying so much sick leave?

No.  Mate, the start of last year, I felt like I was going broke because I paid so much because of COVID. But it's, they're entitled to it. Yeah. They're employees. Like that's what they're entitled to. And we need to like not be angry when they take it because that's what they do for working for us.  And I think.

It's that whole like give and take right because if there's that respect in the sense of like okay Well, you're not sick on purpose. Yes, then people are less likely to call and see to take the piss. Yes And just be like, I'm not going in today. Sick day. Yeah. Yeah. And my team is like, they feel horrendous when they call in sick because you're letting people down.

You feel like you let the whole side down. Exactly right. They feel awful. Like they're always like, Oh, I'm sorry. I had a conversation with one of the girls literally last, she had three days off and she was coming back on the Friday and I rang her on the Thursday night and I was like, are you actually better?

Cause if you come and make everybody else sick. I will hunt you down. I will hunt you down. And she was like, I can't take another sick day. I'm letting my team down. And I was like, you're letting me down. If you make anyone else sick, like don't come in tomorrow. Like we've got it handled. Like it's fine.

You're unwell. And I'm like that with my whole team. Like if you're unwell, it's okay. And I even, oh mate, I remember making one of them cry. Cause I was like,  Why the fuck are you here?  Like, if you are sick, you don't need to rock up to work. Ring me at seven o'clock so I can organize your day. You're actually making it harder for me.

I don't need you to prove to me that you're sick because that's what we had to do. But that was the culture. We used to go in and just be like, I'm on my deathbed. I, you can, like, I wasn't putting it on, I am so physically unwell. I remember calling in sick, actually, I was so sick, I was in the hospital, and I couldn't physically call, and they still thought it was bullshit.

I know! Like, it's, yeah. Literally, like, like you were going to like, mate, I don't want to be here.  It was so bad. It was so, it was so bad. I remember, but then I remember getting pulled up myself.  Into that  toxicity. Yes. Again, that's the word and you said it right. And when I became a manager and I would question everybody when they were sick, like I was like, she's not sick.

She's doing this. I still remember so well a girl that I worked with and I like, I still judge myself for it. I question it to the ground and I got photographic proof and I'm thinking who the fuck cares? It's not my business. She's not doing this to me. And I still think of that because. I got pulled into the same way I was led to lead that way and it was horrendous.

Do you  think, I know the answer to this, but I want to hear you say it. Do you think you still were in that way when you first went into business? Absolutely. It took me a really long time.  To just be really okay with sick days and just it'd be okay. Like don't get me wrong. It's still annoying. It's annoying for everyone.

Like it's not, it's annoying for the clients. It's annoying for the staff that have to try and shuffle everything. And I, the more stuff you have, the harder it gets because I feel like one goes down and every, like, it feels like everyone goes down. So you'll have like no sick days for ages. And then all of a sudden it's like this person's sick.

And then this person's sick. And then this person's sick. And it's hard. You're trying to run a business and COVID happened and it absolutely. Like  wiped us out of sick days. And it was, it's tough. Don't get me wrong, but I just, I remembered going through it when I went through it, but I just had this epiphany one day where I was just like,  Oh my goodness, like I don't ever want my staff to feel bad that they're, they're calling in sick.

Like if they say, sorry, I'm like, stop it. You're sick. I know you're sick. Stop saying sorry. I get it. Like it's fine. Take time. Rest your body because  I want to treat my staff the way I would want to be treated. And I remember, like I've said this before, when my mum was in, had a heart attack and she was in intensive care and it was on a Saturday morning and they gave me two hours on a Saturday morning to go and visit her before I started work.

Whereas you should have. I should have spent the day with my mum. Imagine if my mum had died and I was at work. Because I was like bullied to be at work. Like it's a horrifying, horrifying thought. Horrifying. And I never ever want my, my family to feel that way. You were bullied into being there. Yeah. Like you were bullied into the fact that you could not say no.

It's a boundaries thing for sure. Yeah, it's a boundaries thing for sure. And I think that the most important thing we can do as leaders is learn from our past habits and, and the past wounds that we've had and really looking at, okay, well, what actually has happened in my career that's making me feel icky like this?

And how can I reframe this? And how, how do I get better? How do I become a better boss so that I don't repeat those same patterns? Because they're ingrained in us.  The way that I was taught was the way that I thought it went, it was meant to be until I created myself a new path. And that's why I've had staff for as long as I've had. 

So it's the same with annual leave and like, just, you know, I have one of my staff members, I was at work on Thursday and she just looked a little bit low and Tegan said, Oh, she's having tea. She was with us. The three of us were standing there and Tegan said to me, she's having a bit of a hard time. And I gave her a cuddle and I was like, what's wrong bug?

And she was just like, Oh, I just, she doesn't live here. Like her family's not here on the coast. And she said, Oh, I'm just having a hard time and missing. And Tegan's like, she's missing her family. And I was like, cool. Why don't you go home? And she was like,  I just like, it's too hard to get back and forth within three days.

And I was like, so take Friday and Tuesday off. And she's like, what? And I looked at the computer and I was like, go tomorrow, go tomorrow, come back on Wednesday. And she was like, what? And I was like, it works. Go home. Like, if you need time, you just come to me and I'll give you the time. Like go home, babe.

And then I got a message from her and she was like, I just arrived home on Friday. And she was like, I cannot thank you enough. I love you so much. Thank you. But like,  What difference does it make? Like she's going to take annual leave anyway. Why wouldn't I not support her and love her so that when I need something from her, she will support and love me.

Yeah. And someone who's feeling like they're supported is going to perform better in their job. She's not going to want to move home. Exactly. Because she knows that she's got the support and love of a family that's going to take care of her. And when she does want to go home, how can we support her in that?

Yeah. So it's even that I feel like it was always  money and business first in  the past, especially the big corporations had such a big turnover. Whereas now it's like, how do you nurture the human first? Yeah. How do I love my team first so that my team end up performing for me?  Opposed to, I'm going to like beat them with a stick and tear them down.

So much oppression. And they will do this because they are meant to. It's like I will tell you all the ways you've done it shit and you get better instead of how can we elevate actually everything that you're doing beautifully. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Apprentices. Yeah. Babies. My babies. I mean your babies. Are exceptional.

So exceptional. I don't know how I found them. But it's a different world. Like it is a different world finding young people or any people to work as apprentices. Yep. And what that looks like. And it's also like when we were apprentices, again, oppression, like.  We just like, and like, I was expected to be at work at like, if we start at nine, you had to be there by quarter past eight.

And if you work till five 30, you'd stay until quarter past six. And that wasn't paid. It was an hour and a half a day, not paid. You just were expected. It was just normal. Like, of course you would be there. You're expected to be there. Like, and if you're not there 20 minutes early, like you were there early to set up and then you had to have a 20 minute meeting in the morning before we started.

But that fucking 20 minute meeting wasn't paid.  Like, and it was like, I was in a, when I was an apprentice, I was started in the March. I think it was cutting by the eight, by the August hike. You were just right. You were just average. You just got thrown in and it was just average. Whereas these days my girls don't get on the, like they're, they're trained until their perfection until, and then they get on the floor.

Yeah. So. Okay. Sometimes it feels a little bit harder because you want to make them perfect before they get on the floor. Whereas we were just thrown, but the skill set that my apprentices are walking away from  now to how I walked away is like polar  opposites. I think it's important to acknowledge too that not all apprentices are walking away like that because there's lots of people still in that,  you know, true.

True. Old pattern. True.  But again, you need to look at yourself. I think when it comes to apprentices and young people you're hiring if you aren't hairdressers.  But I think to, I think we've also got to be cautious not to get caught up in that whole,  like they're, they're, they're. that generation and that generation doesn't want to work and that generation won't work.

And it's hard to find people. It's so not true because I have four of the most spectacular apprentices, but the difference is I foster that  culture, that apprentice culture with everything I have in my body. So again, when we used to train, yeah, it was like, you pretty much played your apprentices off against one another.

It was like, who's the better apprentice.  I played into that. I wanted to be the better apprentice. Competitive. Much, I know. Pretty much with myself, but. Yeah, I was competitive as shit. I wanted to be the best. I wanted, because I need the recognition. Yeah. I need someone to say you're doing a good job. So it would play off against one another.

And I had this again when I worked for myself. Like I, I feel like. Um, because that's how I learned, that's how I was even with my first apprentices. I didn't know how to foster it. And it happened to me having my own business, two apprentices that didn't like each other and it was so hard. It was just like a constant battle and a constant form of angst. 

And when I got my, I, we then didn't have apprentices for years. And we were like, no, can't do this. Never again. Too hard. No. Yep. Yep. Yep. And then the salon grew and it just doesn't work without apprentices. Again, it's that hierarchy. It used to be apprentices at the bottom and your owners and bosses at the top.

And it was this huge hierarchy. Again, I don't think that's there anymore. I am just as important as my apprentices are. Yeah. If not, they're more important than me. Everybody plays their roles. Oh, when they're not there. Our life sucks. When I'm not there, they're fine. When they're not there, everything is hard.

Yeah. So those girls are just as important as,  anyone else on that team. So I think again,  fostering that for me, it was like how I've done this wrong. And that's how it used to be. So I remember getting, when my second one came on board, I sat them down and was like, you are best friends. You will never fight.

You will never compete. You will only ever learn. Support. Support and love and encourage each other. You'll never try and blow out of each other's flame. You are only going to be there to continue. And geez, didn't they take that and run with it? Oh mate, best friends. They were obsessed with each other. And then we got a third and we said the same thing and now we have a fourth and we said the same thing.

And I went out the back room the other day and they were like talking and I was like, what are you doing? They're like, oh, we're going to dinner, the four of us. And I was like, oh. Thanks for the invite. And they're like,  yeah, so like, no,  you're not invited. Like this is our crew of our four, but it also feels like they don't, the cool thing about them too, is they don't then gang up on the rest of our team and go like, we all don't like when this person does this, or we all don't like when this person does that, like, they're also very, like, I'm very like, You leave it at the door and if you need to talk to us, you talk to us individually.

You don't then go and talk behind our backs and it's all of that too. You don't want to create two sets of teams, but it just doesn't happen because the culture  Is first and foremost within our business.

Marker

 Oh my goodness. Okay. So I feel like we've covered a lot. We have. Do we want to do, because we were talking about doing maybe a this, that type scenario that's different.

I feel like we've kind of done it. Do you feel like we've covered all of it? I feel like it's, we've covered, I want to know more topics that have changed, but you know, I think everything's changed. Like. the work has changed. Like you think about even the difference in like you're looking at brow salons, you look at the difference between brow waxes 10 years ago and brow waxes now, like I used to charge 10 to do a brow wax.

I'm not  a brow artist. I got taught in my apprenticeship how to do a brow wax and it was add on for 10.  That is not going to be some good brows. That is not what brows are all about. And now these days, brows are like the most important thing. You pay 120 to get your brows done so that they're like mint. 

So,  another thing, Makona, like it was Makona,  a Makona and a like, I think it was called Lotus, was that a Lotus cookie? Oh my gosh, with the sugar on it? Yes! Like a Makona and a Lotus cookie, and then like, it was box orange juice that you made up with water. Oh. And that's what you got. But that's also what was expected then.

These days it's like here, let me deliver you a, your espresso martini with your homemade rocky road because it's what people expect. Yep. The expectation for booze is really high. Oh my God. My Dan Murphy's bill is through the roof.  It's also the expectation of service. You know, what's changed dramatically is what a salon has to look like these days.

10 years ago.  You would never see the caliber of what the salons are these days. Agreed. If you're building a salon, it better be divine. Like, yeah. And different. And award winning. Like, it's really hard just to open a salon because you expected it to be this like divine space because everyone's trying to one up each other on the spaces.

But back, that was never a thing. When we started 18 years ago, and for a good probably 10 years. It was all about the big salons and everyone will know this in every industry. It was like, it was very much about the big salons, the big chains, the, you know, Michael Dibbs and Steffans and Tony and Guy. And it was all about the big salons.

Like that's where everyone had their hair done and it's not that way at all anymore. It's like everyone wants the like boutique exclusive kind of like. Yeah. Individual salons like they, that's where they want their spaces to be. And again, I think social media has played a massive part. Opening those openings, people's eyes.

Yeah. To, to different. Yeah. To different. Yeah. And how it can look different and how, what the, how running a smaller salon can really benefit you. And also how you going to that smaller salon pays for. their life and their staff's life and not this massive corporation to make a big corporation money. And that's that same flow on to like the suppliers and how they like hair care.

It's that whole, like there is a face and there is a family and you know, these are the people that you are supporting. Yep. And yeah, that's really nice. I mean, we always talk about support local, you know, it's that whole, if you're going to,  boutique, locally owned business, you're supporting a family.

You're supporting that family. It lives locally to you. I think for us too, the cool thing about it is then we then get to support our clients that have businesses. So, you know, my girls go to a dance school where the, the owner is my client. So paying that money to her, it's kind of like I'm giving back.

She's giving to me. It's that.  Energeti, Energeti, Energeti. It's that energetic flow of money that money is just consistent. Like it just comes back to me at all times and it goes back and forth. So rather than money just going and then needing to get influx, it's like, how can we think about that energetics of money?

Just keeping it moving through. Moving through your community, your butchers, your, like everything. My brow artist is, you know, one of my clients and you know, everything I try and do, it's like, how do you work it out so that it's within your community and so that you're supporting the little people. But it never used to be like that.

It used to be very much supporting the big people instead of the little people. And it was like, Oh, you're not using the big people.  Oh gosh. You know, whereas now it's like, Oh, what is this amazing little thing I haven't heard of? Please tell me more. And everyone, and you generally find stuff that way because staff want to work for a family owned business that support them and not these.

Big corporations where they feel like they're a number. Number. Where they're a number. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man, numbers. Yeah. Yep. So a number. Yeah, we were a numbers for many years, but my staff, again, I'm never a number. My staff are never a number. They're my whole humans first  and my employees second. And they know that, which again is why I've fostered the relationship I have.

Yes. But.  I've also made sure that I do it in a way that I'm still really respected as an owner so that you don't play that part of taking it too far and then not feeling like anybody respects you. Boundaries. Boundaries. Oh my God. We're talking about boundaries a lot today. There's a masterclass. There's a masterclass on that.

Called Boundaries. So, but yeah, boundaries are a big one and how we're developing our businesses. I think we're learning. I think we're going to turn around in 10 years time and be like shit because at the end of the day, COVID changed us massively. Oh, it changed the world. And we now don't look after, we only look after three guys and we don't do kids anymore.

And, and so. We don't work Saturdays anymore. Like Saturdays you would never, ever, we could never take a Saturday off in our, like when we were growing up in our industry, it was like if you took a Saturday off, you were the worst human in the world. The worst human in the world. I, we don't work Saturdays at all anymore.

My, I swear to God that people thought that my husband wasn't really married  and that he was just making it up like, you know, at Saturday sports and everything. I genuinely thought, Oh, this poor guy's got to pretend that he's got a wife. Like it's, I remember rocking out with the first time like, Oh, you do exist, actual person.

Yeah. Wow. Because we started to realize that we have to. Develop our businesses and create our businesses in a way to make life feel better first. It can't be money and business first. It has to be humans first. And then in turn, the money comes with that. Yeah. When you are creating from that space instead of being like, I will open seven days and I will work seven late nights and I will work Saturdays in order to make the money.

That all changes. You start to get to this point where you're like,  Work can't just be. I'd, I also hate the word work now. So when I talk about mentoring or being in the salon, I say I'm in the salon or I'm mentoring because I hate the word work because I feel like the word work was what we did. I worked like a robot for a company and I don't feel, I don't feel that way.

I don't feel like our, my team feels that way. It's just this enjoyment of we have to go and do something to make money,  but we enjoy it while we do it. And then with my people. Yeah. Making people look pretty. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And pay for it.  win. Amazing. So I would love to know if anyone jumps on like this video and comments like the difference between their experiences.

I'd love to share that on our Insta. Like, so give us some comments on our socials that we put up for this and also on our YouTube because I'd love everyone else to be like, Oh my God, the difference between  Yeah. Like, it's so interesting because I'm sure like we've done this, we've been talking about this for nearly an hour now and I'm sure there's many more, but these are the ones that just came off.

Oh my God. Fucking lunch breaks. Oh my God. You'd never take a lunch break and if you took a lunch break, you would pretty much be the devil. Whereas now I'm like, take your fucking lunch break. Like it's like so important in our salon, but this took time because I was so used to like, why should you get a lunch break?

And now I'm like, get a lunch. Yeah. Again. That's a huge one. I know. So there's so many that's different, but I love the way that the world's evolving and we're so lucky to work how we work now. And I really encourage anyone who has these past beliefs of how you ran, how you were brought up in a salon to really like, I think that will be your journal prompt.

for this week. Yeah. Question that whole, that mentality of, well, I had to do it. How, yeah. How were you trained and how did it develop you as a human? And are there still things that you can do now?  to make your business better than what you had. Yes. You know, have you still got, do you still feel angst around sick days or do you still feel angst around Saturdays or what do you feel uncomfortable with?

How would have you liked to have been treated and how can you change your perspective? How can you change it? Yeah. Yeah. How can you change your perspective? That's a journal prompt. That is a great journal prompt.  Guys, this episode is fun. I could have talked for hours. I hope you've enjoyed it. Um, I also wanted to say a big thank you to Haircare again for not only believing in me and, and this podcast, but also believing in me enough to change my life through the salon as well.

So a massive, thank you. We're super excited about next two weeks guests. Yes. We're having Sharelle from Miss Lash, who is Just such an spectacular human and a juicy conversation about into the, the mentoring space and stuff with her as well. So we look forward to seeing you soon. And as I said, please send us some comments because we want to know what you all say.

Yeah.  Thanks guys.