Salon Rising: The Podcast

Transcript

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Welcome back to the Salon Rising Podcast. Welcome, welcome! I guess from afar. Hello, Ms. Ashley? Yes, a special guest from afar. I wish I could be in the same state as you drinking margaritas. My God. Agreed, agreed. You should move here. It would be a good idea. Just a subtle hint, but if you lived here, it wouldn't be a problem.

Okay, we need to describe to the people who don’t know Ash. Okay, so actually, I'm going to introduce Ash. We are joined by Ashley Bailey, but I'm going to let Ash explain what she does. Social media wizard people. Ash, break it down. Okay. All right. Yes, my name's Ash Bailey. In short, I'm a social media coach, an Instagram coach specifically for hairdressers and the beauty industry. I don’t run accounts, I don’t manage accounts for people, but I coach you on how to better manage your own account, save time, and get better results. I've been doing social media for 11 years, so this is my next chapter of coaching, taking my step off that account management side and sharing everything I've learned over the last 11 years with small business owners who want to manage their own accounts because they know they're good at it already, but they just need guidance on what they should be focusing on and where their time is best spent. Yeah, that's me, Instagram coach on Instagram and Social Coach.

Yeah, agreed. I think it's crazy 'cause you and I have known each other now for five years. Yeah, probably. We met overseas in Barcelona and just hit it off immediately. And the funniest thing is, people talk about our socials, but the funniest thing with me and Ash is the simplest things are what changed my life. It was nothing major. And it's the same thing with Salon Rising, I really believe. I think it's like the really simple, basic things that for you and I feel really normal within our business, but for people doing social media, it's like learning those really simple things. For me, it was InShot one day when you told me how to split, and I was like, "What do you mean? I'm sorry, what button was that again?" We were at an event and I was like, "Can you do the button again?" and you were like, "Oh my God," and I was like, "I know, but I really need to learn this." And learning those types of things is what has obviously made us able to do what we do now with our reels. But it's not about reinventing the wheel; it's about having someone teach you the really simple things like how to make reels and things like that so you can create them within your own salon.

And it's overwhelming because there are so many elements to it now. You can't do it all. You can't be having broadcast channels, doing notes on your Instagram, doing reels, doing carousels. Someone needs to help you and tell you what you should do because otherwise, you'll be spending all your time trying to do it and diluting any quality posts anyway. Yeah, I think too, people get really overwhelmed, and I've noticed this so much lately. I recorded a video last week or the week before, and it took me about—I don't think even five minutes to record. It was a reel that said "Our vibes," and it was just the girls dancing, right? I didn't even get them—they weren't even dancing to the music. I just literally went "dance," and they did this. They were all in the middle of clients, but they were just doing whatever they were doing, and I was like, "dance," and then I took a video of it. I need to look actually, 'cause I'm—let me see this one. I can't keep up with it. I love this. I love the fact that you are so proactive with posting and just getting it done that everybody thinks it's hard and time-consuming. That's what they think.

Okay, so if you aren't watching, if you are looking at it, it's the one where it says "Our salon vibes," and you can see Laura holding a Kevin Murphy bottle. How far down is that? So here, it's just one swipe down. I found it. Yeah, one swipe down. I like how you describe it. It took me literally like two seconds to record. I just heard the sound and thought, "Oh, that's pretty cute." Now if we go to the insights, it had 120,000 views, 2,424 likes, 74 comments, 974 saves, and 852 saves. I have no idea why. Wow, 852 saves. Saves? I don't know why! As soon as I see this and go, every salon will look at that and think, "I can do that easily." Share it with my team. Save it. This is accessible. It's like culture. Tick. Everyone looks happy and having a great time. I can do this quickly. All they have to do is a little wiggle. Save.

Okay, so let's just wind it back, you two, before we fall down a rabbit hole. We've gone into analytics. Explain to people what analytics you're talking about because we’ve got to remember, some people don't even know what their insights are. They don't know what their insights are. They don't know what they're looking at when they're in there. So let's go back and talk a little bit about that kind of thing. This is what Ash is super clever about. She can break it all down inside there. 'Cause there are people who are gonna open that and go, "Oh, there's a whole bunch of numbers. I don't know what that means." Whoop, and away it goes.

Okay, so the metrics or the indicators that we can look at for a post to see whether someone's interacted with it. There's save, share, comment, and so on. Based on those signals, when you put your post up, the Instagram algorithm will look to see if your post will get any signals, like if people are going to stop and pause, look, and watch for three seconds. Sorry, views are also a metric. They might stop, they might then zoom into your photo, which they're measuring again. Or you're commenting, liking, saving, or sharing. These are all indicators to Instagram that people like this post. The more people interact and do those things, the more it's going to keep showing up to people who follow you, plus the potential to open up your post to be seen by new people in the Explore function. Once you get into that Explore area, you are being put in front of all new accounts, and that's your opportunity to convert to new followers and new clients. That's where you get that huge exposure. You get outside of your existing audience and you're reaching new people.

For instance, the example we're talking about then with Samara—in the first three seconds of that video playing, more people than average stopped and watched. Instagram also knows what your benchmark is or what the average post amount gets that actually stops and looks at. For that instance, for that post, people stopped, watched it, and then did a signal—share, save, like—and if more than an average number of people do that, it's straight away going, "Oh yeah, people want to see this," and push it to more people. Does that make sense? That totally makes sense. So are there particular signals that are better performing? Yeah, I think so. Traditionally, it used to just be about likes, didn't it? But we’ve moved away from that. I see it as a real fan who would like your post, but where you get more potential opportunity to be exposed to more people would definitely be, I would prioritize a share first, number one, and then secondly, a save. So a share by definition is sharing to at least one new person.

You're either going to share it in your DMs to one person or you're going to share it to your Instagram stories. So that button is guaranteeing that another person sees it. Just because someone likes it doesn't guarantee that a new person sees it. So shareability, that’s probably the key. Making your content around a strategy of "Would someone share this?" is 100% a great content strategy for growth. For growth. I think too, with that video, which I noticed, it was original. I was just scrolling that day and I listened to that sound and thought, "That would be cute." So I had seen somebody do it, but it was like her walking across a road. Like a fashion one. Like it wasn't hair. And she wasn't dancing. I saw her walk across the road and thought, "That's a cute song. That could be a cute little dance song." And I think because it was original, that's why it went crazy. Yeah. And that's something you—I remember you saying to me, Samara, that you do. You put your phone up to your ear, listen to songs, and visualize how you would use that song with your team or with your Salon Rising business. I love that because you are storyboarding in your head what you want your content to look like. You are not copying, you're not being a sheep, you're not just doing a trend because it looks like everyone else is doing it and if everyone else is doing it, it must do well for you.

Oh, we do, though. We do those ones too. Like when we find good ones, and I always say to everybody—You do get onto them early too, I think. I try and get—an early adapter, I would say. Yeah, but I definitely follow trends on certain ones because they're good fun. But yeah, I definitely try and switch out and just listen to the sound because I want to try and make something else up rather than just copying everything. But we do record a couple today and one was original and one was copied. Yeah, a mixture. You're always going to reference something. Because I think at the end of the day, like I say to my Salon Rising clients all the time, if you don't know what to post, just copy something we do. Because at the end of the day, they're trying to get it to their clients. They're not—so I'm like, just use it. It’s not—yeah, you're doing it for your audience.

I think that's a really important thing that you guys should talk about—the audience. Because I think that's where sometimes in small business, people are coming unstuck because they aren't sure who their audience is and therefore it's really hard for them to nail down what they should be posting. You know what I mean? It's like, if you—I've said before, Ash, and you've said this too, Samara, if you want this to translate to bums in seats, if that's what you're actually looking for, then you need to have it sharing to people within your local area and not further. Is that right? Yeah. When you're doing a paid post, is it, and not just the normal post? Yeah. Like when you—if an organic post goes viral, and you don't really have that—that’s one of the downsides of going viral. Just because you've gone viral doesn't convert at all to huge revenue for your business. Even for my business that has online and I can work a bit remote, I've grown 12,000 followers this year. I haven't tripled my income or anything like that. Maybe my reputation a little, but it definitely doesn't correlate with a huge spike in sales. So, you don't—that's probably a main thing to talk about too. It's not all about that follower count. It's about what your existing audience, who they are. Are they hairdressers, or are they clients? 'Cause that's a huge part of the piece. People get inspired by seeing what other hairdressers do, but a hairdresser might be an educator, they are creating content that is going to entice a hairdresser, but you doing that piece of content may not entice a client.

Yeah. Yeah, knowing who your audience is and focusing on them for everything will help you as well. When it comes to comparing yourself, feeling like, "Oh, but I saw someone else do that trend." But like Samara said, who cares? We are creating this content for your key clients. They don't follow that hairdresser. Yeah, I think it's really important, and this is something I can do when we do one-on-one strategies with someone, is figuring out what's holding them back. And, there's definitely a type of person that is being held back because they're comparing and they see what everyone else is doing, and it can be extremely toxic. And I even in my niche, follow my competitors because I don't think it benefits me. I think too, you've gotta find what your niche is. There's no point in following someone and being like, "That's not my vibe," and then doing what they're doing.

Ella's vibe is, for us, we do convert clients because of what our salon environment is. That's our vibe and everything we post is our vibe. But organically, that is us in the salon. Like that is us in the salon completely. So when I post silly videos of the girls hugging each other, or before I left the salon just now, four of them hugged me when I left. It's normal for us. That's a normal feeling for us. So don't be posting stuff that doesn't feel organic for people when they're there, because then it's inauthentic. It feels disconnected. So it's really important to be creating, as you said, that content of that vibe yourself. If your vibe is very mellow and you want to create, and it's also about—all our Instagram is revolving around the work we want to do. If you look at our page, there's no short haircuts. There's no men's, there's no kids. We only post the work that we want to be doing because that's what we feel inspired by and that's what our salon's geared towards. But it's the same way with our reels, with who we're—so it's, if you want a super mellow salon, you wouldn't be posting all this upbeat stuff. If you want to focus solely on men, you'd be doing lots of different reels regarding that and what type of vibe you're looking for.

I think it's so important that people do niche down on what type of client they want and who they are trying to bring in. Because it's the same thing as you said, Ash. There are so many accounts out there that you even see. It's almost like hair salons. Someone will do a funny video about a client being late, or don't like—I just don't think it's appropriate. I just don't. I just think your Instagram's for your clientele. Like, that's not the appropriate time. And just like for me, my content that goes on Salon Rising to Ella is very different from Samara, Palazzi, and Co. They're all pretty different because of the fact that one is me in my personal life, one is me talking to business owners, and one is me talking to clients.

You've gotta find a niche in that. Do you agree? Yeah. And I think where people get stuck is they rely on clients to create content. They just want to get something up. "Oh, I just gotta get something up. Oh, that hair's a bit short. Oh yeah, that's not actually my specialty, but I'll get a post up." Getting a post up is not a strategy anymore. I’d rather you not post than post something that’s not on brand. This was huge for me. Also, just changing the way you do things sometimes, like I've got more writing across my posts than I ever have. Is my feed aesthetically pleasing? Probably not. But is it converting? Yes, it is. It's engaging. People don't want to follow curated accounts anymore. I’m really against overly curated feeds. I don’t like Canva tiles or a grid that’s just completely hair and doesn’t show the staff, the salon, the people, because those aren't the accounts people want to follow. You look back at that grid and you go, "Ah, yeah," and you move on.

Even for me, if I look at my Salon Rising account, for example, my first five videos or reels on there, how many of them are hair? Two of them are hair, and four of them are funny content, right? The ones that are performing the lowest are the hair videos. The hair videos get like 1,800 to 3,000 views, whereas the other ones have around 5,000 views. So, my recommendation is your grid should be 50% hair, 50% non-hair content. It gives you a recipe to follow when you're like, "Shit, I need to get a post up." It’s not about who came in today, it’s more about balancing hair with non-hair content, whether it’s behind-the-scenes, showing some products, or showcasing the salon space. There are many non-hair things you can do, and they’re in your camera roll too, you're just not considering them.

There is still a fixation on wanting to show perfect hair. Some people want their Instagram to be their visual portfolio, and it still can be 50% that, but that's not going to fully convert a client anymore or grow your business. I've noticed for me, I’ve done that, and again, I work with you on a regular basis across both my brands. Like we say in everything, I don’t know this industry; you’re learning it all day, every day, and putting it into place all day, every day. I need constant, “Okay, what next?” Every single time I’ve done stuff with you, I’m like, “Okay, I feel refreshed, I’m ready to go,” and I boom. People say to me, "I'm just done. I'm exhausted with social media." And I'm like, "Too bad. Do something to excite yourself again, like work with a coach, like call Ash and say, 'I need to feel inspired,' because social media is what is giving you clients." When I’m quiet on social media, both my businesses go quiet. When I’m constant, both businesses are flourishing.

It is a very necessary tool, and it's okay to feel overwhelmed and sometimes just feel like you can't be bothered. But there aren’t many other marketing tools for our businesses, and we know it can work. So, we do need to put in the time. If you get frustrated that you have to spend too much time, work with someone like me who can be like, "Okay, just do this." For me, I make sure that on a Tuesday, I work across both businesses. For example, I dropped the kids off early this morning, went straight to the salon, had a call for Salon Rising, and then I was in the salon doing one-on-ones but also creating four pieces of content.

It’s about getting good at integrating it into your everyday life and documenting your day, which is a great way to capture content. I just found four reels and recorded four funny reels, and everybody loves it. You've allocated time to film those, and people might say, "Oh, but I've got to make time," and I'm like, "I just wait until one of my staff members is available, and as soon as they are, I'm like, 'Let’s do this right now.'" You've always had a great can-do attitude when it comes to content; you don’t overcomplicate it. You don’t have an ego about how you look, so you just get things done. Instagram has filters; I look better on Instagram!

I think that’s something you could definitely help encourage other hairdressers and small business owners to do, because that’s half the battle: getting them to show up. I did a class in Canberra yesterday, and I talked about the strategies for growth, and one of them is showing up and showing your face in content. Every time, it’s the same reaction: “Oh no, I don’t want to do that.” How do we actually get them to do it? There's magic in the mess, right? I just do it. I find it easier on social. If you put me in a room full of people, I’m the biggest introvert, but on social media, I don’t care—it’s just me. And when I’m in the salon with the girls, it’s even funnier.

This morning, the girls were being naughty, and I was like, "If you get ready, I’ll let you watch my Salon Instagram page." I think it's hilarious. I love that my kids choose to watch it; they think the salon videos are so funny. Today, they were even giving me ideas, like with Monopoly cards that say, "Just Say No." They’re like, “Mom, you should ask someone to sweep, and then she should give you a 'Just Say No.'” It’s so cute; they're giving me ideas. It’s a really nice look into other people’s worlds, and that’s why we follow people, right? To feel inspired.

It’s important to unfollow anyone who doesn’t make you feel good enough. It doesn’t mean you don’t like that person; it’s just that sometimes you compare yourself and don’t feel enough. So, for me, it’s better to unfollow because I don’t want to compare myself; I just want to be me. At the end of the day, being a creative person means being an artist, and to create, you have to feel like you’re in a safe, positive place.

That was one of the best things I did when I started Ashley Valley Consulting—taking my Instagram seriously and cutting off all the high school people. I’m from that generation, and I don’t know if it’s being in Adelaide or what, but showing your face on Instagram might be perceived as being a bit self-important, like "tall poppy syndrome." Maybe I’ve made this up in my head, but when a certain person from high school was looking at my stories, it didn’t make me feel like I wanted to keep doing it, even though plenty of people were engaging positively.

It's about focusing on the people who matter and letting go of those who don't. Doing a good cull of anyone who triggers you is key. Sometimes it might just be noticing who comes up on your feed and then realizing, "Why am I following this person?" If it’s someone who worked for you and they're now posting at their new salon, why would you stalk them? It’s not going to help you at all. I would recommend not following their journey if a staff member leaves. Mute them if you have to, so you don’t see their posts and stories until you’re emotionally ready to engage again.

Be honest about your boundaries. If you need to distance yourself from someone's posts so that they don’t affect you, that’s okay. It’s about protecting your mental space and focusing on your journey, not theirs. Social media is such a bizarre space; we’re all more connected, but not always in a healthy way. It’s about keeping your focus on your own life and business. If a client leaves and goes to another salon, you don’t need to see that. Just focus on your journey and what makes you feel good.

I love this question. Something. Obviously, social media is a lot like—it is a get really trapped in it and people say, "Where do I find time?" If you look at your screen time, that's where it’s, guys, and no one can tell me otherwise because we have so much time in a day, and I just feel like so much of it is wasted on socials. Scrolling, you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. It’s really true because anyone that says to me, "Ah, no," I'm like, "That's a lie. Tell me how much screen time you've had today." And it's like, even for me, if I get into bed and I get on Instagram, it's like Instagram to TikTok, to email, to Voxer, to WhatsApp. Switching between the apps. Yep. And then back to Instagram, and then Instagram stories, and then back to TikTok. And sometimes I'm like, "Alright, five more. I'm like, five more minutes," or 10 more scrolls, and I'm still scrolling. So for me, I know how to get it off it now, but what do you do?

Sure. So firstly, I changed my career path into coaching. That was definitely my first one. So we haven't really talked about my career journey, but where I was before doing social media coaching was managing a team of three at Haircare Australia and being the social media marketing manager for 27 social media accounts all up, plus 15 ad accounts as well, probably. 27 social media accounts. That's massive. Yeah, I did have coordinators underneath me, but I did have a team. But I didn't, when I first started, five—my first year into haircare, I was all by myself with 27 social media accounts. And previous to that, I've worked at social media agencies. I've been—when I worked at Nine West Shoes, I've had to post three times a day, three feed posts per day. So it's, uh, yeah, I've had my fair share of account management and being on, and I've definitely overstepped that a hundred percent, especially in my years working at Nine West. Probably when I had to do three posts per day, I stepped into being a content model, and it just became completely my life.

And when I look back, I'm like, it makes sense why other things weren't working out for me. Couldn't find, couldn't, didn't have many friendship groups, had a horrible dating history. Like just, it wasn't working out. And when I look back now, it's pretty clear, it was—there was, you know, I was a bit wired wrong. I was about to go on MAFS. I nearly went on MAFS. Can you imagine? Yeah, wow. I know. They, they, yes. Oh yes. This is, yeah, eight years ago, I think now. So I think there's something in the back of my head that I had to, I knew, I was like, what am I gonna do when I'm old? This is a young person's job. This will burn out. You cannot be switched on and wired into all these accounts and be passionate about growing them. So when you're passionate about growing them, that's when you can start to be working on it too much. And because social media, my career started when social media first started, I had one of the first social media coordinator roles ever in Australia.

So I had to figure out a way—there was no future career path that had—there was no one else to look up to and be like, "Oh, that's what I can do next." So it wasn't probably until working at Haircare where I found the industry of the hair industry, where I found an audience who didn't need that account management, which is, yeah, hairdressers and the beauty world, small business, beauty small business owners, and stylists. I'm so grateful that I found this niche because I found a career where I didn't have to be—some hairdressers still ask me to run their accounts, but I definitely feel like I've got a sustainable career now where I don't have to be switched on to that many accounts. Yeah, I might scroll, and then on top of that, there's scrolling. But I probably should say how—what I've worked on. So changing my career a hundred percent. So I probably, now I don't switch, but maybe sometimes I scroll too much. And because I convert a lot of my customers in Instagram DMs, it's very distracting trying to get to your DMs sometimes, 'cause your feed comes up, and you're like, "No, shit. What did I come here for? What did I come here for?" Yes, that's right. To confirm that customer, that's something I'm working on because I think I do a lot of work in there, but I can get distracted by a great post coming up. And that's very applicable for salon owners and stylists if you are doing bookings in your DMs a hundred percent.

But the two major factors would've been, yeah, starting my consulting business, and creating a personal account as well where I posted a little bit about my family, but I've really stopped. I feel like I've stopped the negative socializing aspect of social media because I've created another place for it. And I just naturally have found that I don't actually want to spend time there. So that—separating my life from that. I found that really helpful. And also meeting my husband. We now go—when I met him, he's—he goes to bed early, and I think maybe when we were dating, I was trying to not look like I was addicted to social media. Like we—he didn't bring his phone into bed, so I didn't either. So we still go to bed at nine-thirty every night, and we don't bring phones into the bedroom. They're like there, but we don't scroll in bed. And I think that's a huge factor in how I keep creating and don't just scroll and look at other people.

I scroll on the couch, but the idea of scrolling in bed with the dark screen in your face—I feel like that is really not healthy. I love that. I love hearing it, but considering that it's your job, like I love hearing that. So this is where I segue into—No, there is—I’ve heard of this—the two-minute pause and it says, "Do you really want to open this?" Is that what you are talking about? No, there's, or maybe it may say that, there's a new app. Yeah, there's this new app. This one is one that—this is one that, it may do that also, but this is an app that, like, you can shut off everything for like hours. Yeah. See, I've already set all that kind of stuff up, but you just ignore it. No, this one you can't ignore. Once you put it on, you can't get into it for eight hours or however many hours you set. It literally is—you can't, if you set it on the highest one, you can't ignore it. It's just closed.

So sometimes you do it and you think, "Oh fuck, I was meant to pay that bill," and you're like, "It looks like I'm not doing it for another eight hours because I can't do shit." Yeah. But physically charging your phone in another room, like when you go to bed, out of arm's reach—like making sure—I, but the reason why this app was good is I still want to have my phone that can call if something happens or like I check it if something happens or if the kids are not with me or whatever that is. So if it's with me in my room, I'm not great like you. I will fucking scroll. Yeah. Yeah, and so for me, being able to, like, what has helped me is I physically can't get on it, so it stops me. It's like that, 'cause it's an addiction. When you get this app, it tells you how many years you'll spend on your phone. If you keep going this way, it's horrifying. Also, guys, not sponsored. This is not sponsored. I don't know anyone at Opal. I just feel very strongly about when people say to me, "How do you get everything done that you are doing?" It's because I'm trying to get off my f'n phone.

And you're true. I feel like at nighttime, you scroll way more than you do in the morning. It gets dark. Start stalking. Yeah. So for me, I'm like, if I go to bed early and put Opal on—shut up, Jen. If I get out of bed early and put Opal on, then if I'm up at 5:00 AM, I don't get on my phone. Like I might respond to a couple of things, but I don't actually get on my phone because I'm busy in the morning with the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's my—as we segue away from Opal, look forward to it in the next one.

So let's talk about Ash's business. And what, like, who your clients are, like who comes to see you, that kind of thing. What do you do for the people? Let's talk a bit about that. Yeah, so I find it's—I'm forever curious who my customers are in terms of who wants to really invest in actually improving their skills, improving their business on social media. It is quite a broad mixture. So it can be a salon on a flagship street in Sydney. It could be an individual stylist, and then I guess more diverse than that, I've got some clients who are in Sweden, in the UK, in New York. Yeah. Because my social posts can reach across the world, a lot of the hairdressers have the same concerns or the same areas that they want to learn about, and my content's resonated with them. So, yeah, I've got remote ways of working. It proves that it’s not just where you are that’s relevant, right? It’s relevant no matter where you are. The same algorithms and stuff. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I try to get to know their clientele and their customer profile specifically in their region. But yeah, a lot of recommendations and areas of improvement can be—it doesn’t have to be for this type of salon or this type of stylist. There’s a similar formula in a way, but then you want to inject your personality, your niche, what’s your unique selling point, what’s your craft, what’s your specialty into all of that.

So what different ways are people working with you then? Are they like one-on-one or? Yeah, so one-on-one coaching, like via Zoom sessions, video calls, as well as one-on-one private in salon. So I do a lot of that both across Australia and in Adelaide. Group classes too. I do lots of collabs with artists as well. I just did one in Canberra. And then I will be launching start of next year go at your own pace prerecorded videos that people can watch via my website, online education as per everyone. And I also have Instagram subscriptions, so I launched that maybe three months ago, which is a very cost-effective level entry education.

Which is great 'cause again, it's a lot of those little tips that you're like, "Ah, that is awesome." Every time I work with you, every single time I work with you, and I've worked with you for a long time, every single time I work with you, I'm like, "Ooh, that got me better. Ooh, that's better. Ooh, that's better." And if that's what you want for what you do in your business for hair, so why wouldn't you want to do it with your social media too? If I look back at my social media 10 years ago, like even two years ago, it just gets better. And I'm sure in two years' time, I'm going to be like, "What the fuck was I doing?" But it just evolves with what you're doing and who you are. And I think that's really important. And it's really cool for me if I post a reel and Ash loves it, she's always like, "Oh, I love this. You did so good. I'm so proud of you." And it's like my accountability and my cheerleader, like, "Oh my God, I."

Yeah, like if something stops, I'm very analytical, I think, and that's probably from the brand side of things. I managed Olaplex Australia's Instagram, so every morning I would check maybe 500 photo tags of blondes. So I'm pretty sure I can identify what visually is eye-catching when it comes to a hair image, but also what's visually eye-catching when it comes to a video. I think I've got a bit of a mixture of being creative but also quite analytical, and that's, I think, my sciencey brain coming in that I love breaking down and figuring out why something's successful and what's the formula that you can apply? What's the learnings you can apply to be able to do it yourself again?

I think creatives that don't have the science side of the brain don’t understand how to do the things. And that's where someone like you comes in. Yeah. And it is a lot to navigate because there are so many different metrics and numbers and little areas. So, yeah, there is something in pointing out what you should look at because it's overwhelming to try and look at all of it. And I also think it's important—you don't know what's going to go viral. Like you have no idea what's going to go viral, and trying to break that down and have someone go, "Okay, it went viral because of these reasons. This is what you can do to do that again." Like that video, that dumb video we did where, it's "Wash your hair before your hair appointment." Oh man, the haters that came for me on that. Like, we were all laughing 'cause we were—Laura was like, "Have we made it? Like, we've got haters, so it means we've made it." But at the end of the day, 90% of those people weren't followers, weren't going to follow us.

Like it got loads of views and we did grow, but they're not even reading what I'm writing. So they're like, "Oh my God, yeah, let's cut our own hair as well as blow dry it if we're washing it ourselves," whereas—You are getting to the mass population there, aren't you? You are not getting to a girl who's interested in beauty. You're getting the guy that shampoos his hair once a week, maybe. I think we had on that video, let me have a look. It was 185. Yeah. And even when you look at it, it was a seven-second video, and the watch time was 366 hours. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause people—it’s like people want to watch it because they're like, "What am I watching?" So you've got a double hook there. Visually, you're like, "What the hell is happening?" And then your second hook is, "Hey, what, I'm meant to wash my hair? I'm not meant to be able to wash my hair?" Yeah, you're giving them two reasons to go. Again, no idea that was going to go viral. And I think sometimes you've got to get in your head that it doesn't matter what a reel does, just get it up 'cause you enjoy creating it.

If you're doing it with the aspect of "This is going to go crazy," anytime I think that, it does shit. Like, the two that I never thought would go crazy are this one and the other one. And they both went crazy. But that's had 719 cents. Yeah, because people are like, "And again, they haven't seen"—I don't think many people have seen the feet—the whole transition, that whole jumping shoe thing. I just saw it somewhere and thought that was hilarious. It says, "This reel has reached 2,449% more accounts than the average of your recent reels." It was just 'cause all the haters, but it was also so funny. Like, for me, I was like, "LOL, this is hilarious." So I think you've also got to have thick skin.

Yeah, and it proves to me too that clients just don't know anything about their hair. Teach them the absolute basics. You don't need to be pressing people with your amazing cowboy copper formulas and techniques. You need to actually explain to them how to come into their appointment better equipped, and how to maintain their hair at home, and how to maybe style their hair at home a bit better. Give them value, save them time. It's that simple. Simple. Simple. With anything that we are doing, we try—we think like the simplest things we know are what other people don't know. Wash your hair twice, brush to remove dandruff. It's so simple. Like to us, we're like, "That is so stupid. That's so simple." But if you think about it, Ash thinks the same way. She's like, "I don't understand." Like, these things, these metrics that she shows are so simple. Like, I remember you doing that with a group of girlfriends that you and I had while we were away, and they had a massive Instagram page and you were like, "What do you mean you don't understand the metrics?" They're like, "Oh my God." And look, they're like, "Look at this one." I was like, "You don't know that's had that?"

We, and Salon Rising, it's simple. Simple. So it's the same thing with clients. They want simple, like, what is a simple way of doing something? And I think—yeah. And that's why I like working one-on-one though too, because, again, I feel like I can quite quickly gauge where someone’s at. So I am not gonna waste your time telling you what hashtags to do or how to create a basic reel if you are an advanced student, but if you also haven't done those things, I can quickly see that and go, "Okay, no, this is where we're starting." Yeah. A huge part of it because the evolution has been so big. Everyone is at very different stages. So customized approaches have to be—That's really cool. And that's so true because I know how to do all the basic stuff. So when I work with you, I'm like, "What's next? Tell me where to go. Tell me what to do, tell me how to get better." And look, I'm due for a one-on-one with you anyway, to be able to do that and have a look at it.

Being able to check in with someone and go, "Yeah, when do I do this? How do I do this? What can I improve?" And then Ash also will send me videos and go, "This is cute." And we create stuff almost together like that. There was a Salon Rising video that I did of like the salon owner, like, "What? Why does it take so long to get to the salon?" But start patting your chest, the best. I took that in two takes. The first one I was like, "Oh no, I have to go back." And the first one I tried to do authentically with the kids, and it was just like, it was an actual shit fight because I was running late for school. And the second one I was like, "I'll just do it when I—" Again, it's just like for me, it’s—yeah, it just, I just do it. The quicker things take, like, the more I try and put into it, it doesn't get what I want. The quicker things are, and I can just buzz it out. But even for me, having Ash know that and be like, "This would be cute. I know you can do this," and I do it, and then again, I feel like I have a proud mom that's like, "Yeah, that was so cute. Good job."

And that's the type of people I want to surround myself with though. It's—I do think consumers and clientele are looking for people that aren't trying to fake it. They're just authentically living themselves through life. And then there's a lens there too. I can sniff out orchestration like anything, and it does put me off 'cause it's—doesn't give you trust. It's not trustworthy. And it's probably something I'd love to chat about, I guess, in the future of social media with artificial intelligence and editing photos, which is a huge topic in our industry. So it's so important. And because things are gonna become more and more robotic, we are gonna have—most captions are gonna end up being done by ChatGPT. So if you know what ChatGPT is, it's like a Google that can write things for you. People already don't know if a hair color is actually the hair color or it's being touched up or if that's an actual client or a paid model. The trust point that we've built up for 10 years of social media with more artificial intelligence coming in, people are questioning what they see, and once people can't trust that content, that's when engagement goes.

So that's why bringing it back to you as an owner, a small—someone that provides a service, who touches someone’s head with your hands, you absolutely have to show yourself. That's what's going to cut through. That's what's going—people are going to go, "That's my hairdresser. That's the person I have that relationship with." That's what's going to get authentic engagement and keep prevailing through when we start seeing feeds that are just all done by robots. It's a bit scary. It's years and years off, but it will happen. It’s like people are saying, "I'm gonna get someone to manage my social media." And I'm like, "But you are taking the content." It's so orchestrated. Like, how do you—I don't understand in this industry unless they're working with you every day. Unless they're working with you every day, I don't understand how someone, because even for me, if you were like, "Oh, manage your social media," I'd be like, "But I'm gonna send it all to you."

Doubling up. Imagine you sending me the assets but trying to talk like you, trying to pretend I'm a staff member. Like it's not right. But trying to guess what that client's service had or—especially when the agency isn't even from the hair industry. You imagine the kind of captions they're coming up with and, yeah. And they, agencies or third parties running your social media, rely on a lot of quick-saving tools like using Canva tiles. And again, a tile that has been made in Photoshop or Canva—it looks like an ad. You've gotta think about your posts going up in someone's feed and the signals that make them connect with you is seeing you as the stylist or the salon. They're your branding signals. And if your post is just a sage green Canva tile saying "We are hiring" or "opening," they don't even read that. They don't correlate the sage green as your brand. They will just scroll past and think it's another ad.

And it's interesting 'cause I remember when we started Salon Rising, I wanted it to look really different from Ella. And so we hired someone to do it so it looked really different. And then I remember talking to you, and you were like, "It's aesthetically pleasing, but it won't perform." And I was like, "You know what, you're so right. Like the only way this performs is when I'm just showing up and it's me being authentic and showing up." Yeah. Because people want connection. This is what people are looking for now, more so than ever. Like they actually want to feel connected to the person that, you know, and because people got separated for so long, they want to look through their phone and be connected to you as a person. A hundred.

And I think that's also why our reels do so well because our clients feel—Oh, hundred, hundred—laugh. They feel like our friends. They're like, "This is hilarious. This is my salon." And we even had—Carly and I once did this stupid reel, and I was just driving to work and I love Lizzo. So I was listening to a song, and I sat down that day. I got in, I was like, "Can you sing this song with me?" And she did. And then the following week, we had a lady, and she was like, "Oh, I've been following you for a year, and that video sold me." And it's—You've gotta also remember that people are watching and something will trigger them one day to want to work with you. So remember, followers don't convert immediately. Generally, it takes time for them to earn their trust, and B, people may not. My friend said, I posted a video a few weeks ago on my personal page about just doing a day in the life, and it was just something fun and I thought I would do it.

And sometimes I feel—and I would encourage everyone to do this—sometimes when you do a day in the life, it actually makes you do your day with full force and with full love and full energy because you're like, other people are gonna watch this. So you actually show up to your day as if someone's watching, like the Truman Show. You're like, "I don't really want to go for a swim." I'm like, "Oh, that'll look good on my video." And it makes you accountable 'cause you're doing a day in the life, and you finish that day, and you actually feel like, "Whoa, that was a really beautiful day." And I felt—I filled it with quite a lot of joy. And a friend said to me, "Oh, actually I know someone that followed you, and she—I don't know her." And she said to me the other day, "Oh, I was having a really hard day, and I was sitting in my shit." And she's—and then I watched this video, and she was like, "No, screw that. I'm gonna get up. I'm inspired and I'm gonna do what she's doing." And so there's a lot of people out there that even—there's probably people out there that are judging as well. I'm sure there's people out there that are judging what we do. But then there's also people out there that we're inspiring with how we show up as well.

Yeah, there's so many different—that conversion piece of what gets them over the line. It's not just being maybe a bit of funny entertainment, but it might be also connecting as a mother and having a similar struggle. Or it might be seeing—just, I think it's important to talk about—try and make people feel seen, especially if you are trying to—if your niche is all about selling a service. Go back to what's their problem and what's my solution? And we've got synergies, I guess, in our businesses of—it's not just there is a bit of mindset in there too, and that hesitation and stuff. And yeah, you have to look at that full circle of what would—what gets people across the line or what connects with people. It's not just, here's some pretty hair. That's not the—they're going to book in. They've got to feel safe. They've got to feel trusted. They've got to feel a part of something, a culture like you have. And yeah. Or if you're very premium, they also have to feel that too. But they have to feel not intimidated. So you constantly get—I do think it's important, even if you've got a follower, it's constantly thinking, "What do they not know about us?" What's something about us or me as a stylist, that when I start chatting to someone, they go, "Oh, wow. Is that really—have you done that? That's incredible." They're all little selling points of your story and you know what you can be sharing.

Yeah, great. I feel like you have really enveloped that in the 50-50 rule as well because just, you know, people looking at these—this beautiful, curated hair and it’s like, "Oh, my hair doesn’t look like that. I probably can’t go there." Do you know what I mean? Like, not thinking that they might look like that when they leave. Yeah. But when they get that bit more of that, this is the process, this is what happens. These are the people you hang out with. They’re like, "Ah, they might want to do my hair." Yeah, they might want to hang out with me. Yeah, definitely. And it actually alleviates for you as the hairdresser because you go love a hair shot, and when they take the perfect shot, I get it. But it alleviates the pressure of having to use clients and post not substandard hair because it's only 50% of your content strategy moving forward if you stick to it. It is a challenge. It's a challenge I put forward to most of my clients, and it is a big shift. But once they stick to it, like I've stuck to it, and my follower growth conversion has been insane since. And Samara, I think you'd be similar.

I completely agree. And the other thing I would finish on—and you would probably agree with this—if you are feeling social media burnout, it’s not just because you are burnt out doing it for the business; you're burnt out because you are personally on there and then professionally on there. So give yourself a bit of a detox. Professionally post when you need, but come off personally and see if that helps the inspiration. Because I feel—I would feel overwhelmed if I'm on there constantly, personally, because I will ask clients, I'll be like, "How often are you on there personally?" "Oh, maybe an hour a week." "How on there professionally?" And they say, "Oh, maybe an hour a week." I'm like, "Personally?" And they're like, "I dunno, 10 hours." Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, conscious scrolling. Like thinking about where—when you are on Instagram, are you actually creating or are you just scrolling and really trying to reduce that scrolling time and stick to that lane of creating?

And we've got tools like scheduling now. We can be organized; you can schedule inside Instagram. That's a bit of a game changer, I find. It's not like you have to sit behind a desktop and try and use the other programs. You can do it all on your phone now as well. And I think find the times and fit it into your day. For me, I know that once a while it goes to bed at six-thirty, I have until seven o'clock until I need to be present with the girls and do their bedtime. So it's half an hour to get the post done. I will prep them if I have them early, and then I will just press go. I think one of the biggest things is—and you could say—don't overcomplicate.

Yeah. And batch the jobs. If it's a rule you're making, that's why I do InShot as well, because you can batch that at a separate time, making videos in InShot, and then your next batch of a job is probably getting it up, adding your text, adding your audio. Anyway, let's wrap this up because we could keep talking for hours. I always feel like I could keep talking to you, Ash. You inspire me massively, in everything. And I feel I'm very lucky to work with you across both businesses and personally. But I highly suggest to anybody if they're feeling overwhelmed or if they want to feel inspired with their social media or if they're just ready for something new, Ash, get in contact with Ash. Your Instagram handle again, Ash, is? Coach Ash on Insta. Even if you sat there and watched her reels, like, you, I feel so inspired and get so much out of—Plenty of free tips from organically too. So many free tips. So thank you so much. Please, anyone that is—yes, jump over and talk to Ash. She can work within the salon space. Jump over and send her a DM because even if you are like, "Hey, do you think I could—can you have a look at my feed? And do you think that this is something I could work with?" Honestly, even for me, working with Ash changes my life every single time.

Thank you, Samara. And yeah, I must say thank you for your support. You've been one of my OG clients and supporters. I think anyone that works with you knows that you are so incredible at lifting others up. I'm very grateful to have you in my corner and have your support. And yeah, it's amazing kind of doing this small business journey with your help and support. So yeah. You are doing amazing things. I'm very proud of you because you make everybody's lives easier, so I would highly recommend you to everyone. Thank you. You've been incredible, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Good. Bye.