Salon Rising: The Podcast

Transcript

She's like, you've got to meet this girl, Ashe in my group, like her story. It's just mind blowing. Yeah, there was very much a legacy piece, one having two sons, but also  for how much blood, sweat and tears went into it, had gone into that business. It was almost part of my identity too. And again, you'd have to look.

back that in another 10 years right and go okay yeah this was the right choice because this is where it's led. I wish I was just like more accepting in the beginning that I didn't have to fight for something that wasn't.  It's hard to reverse it, put it away when it comes in rather than thinking because otherwise you overspend.

As a business owner, and especially when you're not a one man band and you have a team, it is your responsibility to learn about these things. Yeah, you have four quiet weeks, you know, and all of a sudden you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think also with business owners, when you can feel burnout, frustration, throwing in the towel.

You know, is this an isolated moment, or is this something that I've been carrying for a long time? I'm like, we're definitely going to have to do part two, because there is still so much. Just having grace and patience with yourself and, you know, really checking in and saying, is this feeling temporary? Or what can I do?

Or is there something fundamentally underlying here that needs to be changed? Yeah, and don't be afraid to change. Or try something and fail. The most horrific, uplifting,  positive podcast you've ever heard. Positive, heartbreaking podcast you'll ever listen to. 

Hey lovers, just a quick one. If you listen to us, and you love us. Could you please hit that subscribe button? I know it's a pain, but that little button means the world to us and our podcast and means that we can get more great guests on like we know you guys love listening to, so  do a girl a favor, hit subscribe, and we would be so grateful. 

Welcome back to Salon Rising, the podcast. Is this our 50th episode?  No, Bridget's like, no, it's your 52nd episode, 52, 52, like the weeks in the year, it just gets long. There's so many podcasts now. There are so many. Thank you for everyone that just like bears in there and listens. Our number one friend, Bridget, we appreciate you.

for listening every week. Thanks Bridget.  Um, I feel like today's podcast is a resilience. And motherhood, surrender, women in business pod, would you agree? Yep, agreed. Okay. We're stepping out of the salon space today, which we think is important because I think there's lessons to be learned from everybody  and everywhere.

And I think, you know, we are going to this year also go to having some diverse.  You know, women in business that are doing different things so that we can learn from their experiences as well. It's really interesting too, I've got, we've got quite a few clients and friends who went to the Pink LeBlond education when she was over.

And that's one of her big things, look for inspiration and guidance outside of your industry. Yeah. So, we presented you today with inspiration and guidance from outside of our industry. Samara, please introduce our guest. Sorry. Welcome to my very dear friend, Ashe Hornsby. You're officially Ashe Hornsby? I am officially, after all these years.

It's official. So many years. Again, patience. So Ashe and I met, funny enough, through, so when we started Salon Rising.  I knew I needed some coaching myself. So again, out of this space, um, with now one of my dear, one of Asheerna, um, my dear friends, Tiana, and we're going to have her on the podcast. I think she'd be brilliant.

Um, and I said to Rich, I need. different type of coaching. Like I need more so just in like leadership and Tiana was a client of mine in La Sorella and started coaching and I was like, that's the space I need to be in. And I went into one of her masterminds and Ashe was in the mastermind with me. And I don't know, just from the beginning, we just like clicked.

We were like, do you remember that day?  Should we go to breakfast and go for a soak? And you were like, yeah, we, um, We're very congruent with each other. That's what I was going to say when I said I was going to say it. So we bonded over big words that we used in the coaching space. So many congruent words.

Like,  so every time someone would say, so we spoke about this when we went out for breakfast. And I think that's the thing too, guys. If there's someone that you feel like, Super aligned with, and you feel connected, you've met somehow, just be like, Hey, let's go get breakfast. go and get breakfast? Do you want to go and do something?

And we did that. Have a date. Let's go have a date. Let's go breakfast. Let's go to soak. And from there, we just like hit it off and just heard each other's story. But yeah, then we just bonded constantly over the use of. Like big words in a space. So every time it got then said, Ashe and I, like, you could tell on the call, we both smiled and like on our phone, it would be like, ding congruent. 

Google helped us get through a few calls. I was like, Oh, I'm not writing it down, just make sure I'm using it correctly.  It could be embarrassing otherwise. And theAshesh and I, Ashe and I repeat it back, like so congruent. And then you just like see her and I just laugh, the duality, the duality of it. So many words. 

All we do and you want, and then we text and laugh. So, you know, you need to have your people in those spaces. So that's how we met. But one of the things that absolutely blew me away with Ashe. So Ashe, do you want to, well, like I have not, you have not talked except said. 

Do you want to tell everybody what type of business you have? Um, and then maybe go into a bit of your background because honestly, your resilience and your strength that, and with everything you've gone through, like, I remember that day we had breakfast and I was like, I've got nothing on what you've gone through.

And it's like been this insane, incredible journey to where you are. I remember. I remember. Like the following week or even it might have been that week because we were in a soaking phase then After this date, we went to soak and you were told she's like, you've got to meet this girl Ashe in my group like her story.

It's just Mind blowing. Mind blowing. And also you would never know that from meeting Ashe because she wouldn't be like, Oh, this has been, you know, people let their story define them. Whereas you don't let your story, I've never seen you let your story define you, but it's just when you actually get to hear someone's story, you're like, okay, yeah, I probably need to pull my own shit back a bit.

I don't know what I'm talking about. So do you want to?  Do a bit of your back story. Firstly, my number one kind of rule is when, um, people are like, Oh, but your story, your story is that everyone's lived experience is all that they have experienced. So it doesn't come down to my shit doesn't matter because your shit is so much worse.

I think we all only know what we've been through and we carry what we've been through. So being like, I shouldn't be upset about. Something that's happened to me because that happened to that person and that's way worse. Yeah, that's my number one thing because otherwise it's just kind of like you're repressing your own feelings.

You're not validating your own feelings. Yeah, where it's our own shit.  I have a stonemasonry business, um, the business is turning 18 years old this year. And it has been such a ride. Um, I'm not a stonemason, fun fact. No? No. So weird. And here I am visualising you. Shocking, shocking, I know. Stonemasonry year.

It's so weird. Um, my late husband, he was a stonemason and, um, when we met at the ripe old age of 21, he had just started the business. It was about three months old and, um, we spent the next 10 years really ramping that up. He was, um, In a business partnership at that time, and that partnership went its separate ways, I think, when I started inserting myself too much into the business.

Um, but we, um, grew that business for a period of ten years from two people to about twenty eight people. And then, A  series of unfortunate events started to unravel in our life where my husband actually unexpectedly passed away and that was eight years ago. So that's the 18, 10 years with eight years without.

So  in a predominantly male led industry, good old stone masonry, it's definitely had its  challenges, um, as a business in general, but there has also been some industry related events that have taken place and then some, um, isolated  events that have taken place with just our business too. So, yeah, I feel like it's one of those, and then, and then, and then, and then.

Um, so I always, I was like, then what happened? I always really struggle. Um, and I think it's really important to like tell it because it's almost just like, whoa, like you're making this shit up. I'll  guide you. You're making this shit up. And then it's like, I forgot something. I've got to go back. Yeah. I've got to do that.

So, um. So let's go. Yeah. Um, cause as I'm, as I'm like hearing you speak, I was like, Oh, we can talk on that. We can talk on that. Like there's so much that you have when it comes to resilience and how you've gone through things. Sorry.  So obviously having a business with your partner and a lot of people will think into this because you know, you see it everywhere.

People have their businesses together and stuff like that. And you're also one of the things that's incredible about Ashe is, and I think it is really like this. You can have people that like Horne was probably more on the tools and you have such an incredible financial brain. It's like how you look at a business.

So obviously when, um, Horne died, the. You also had two little boys. How old were the boys? They were two and four at the time. Two and four. And it was very out of the blue, tragic circumstances that he died. So it was, you know, nothing that anyone would ever think or prepare or experience. How did you manage  after that going, Okay, I've got this like, huge business.

Did you always think I'm going to keep the business? Like, was it, did you feel like it was his legacy? Yes. Or did you think that it was, you know what I mean? Yeah, there was very much a legacy piece. One, having two sons. But also,  For how much blood, sweat and tears went into it, had gone into that business.

It was almost part of my identity too. Although, um, people close to us knew about my involvement in the business. But he was very much like, the face off. Yeah, the face off. Like, and it was his skill. Like, he was incredibly talented at what he did. And how he built that business, um, with me by his side. Um, because he.

He was, he loved money, but I wouldn't say he was very good at finances, um, and had terrible administrative skills. So this is like, sorry, this is so important to have so many people resonate this for their own businesses. But also, you know, I had an ex husband that had a business. I have a partner that has a business and I watch that side of tradies have.

They either have it or they don't and I reckon majority of them don't where they don't do the finance They don't do the administration. So they're very good at what they do and in our industry as well Absolutely There's so many people out here that have businesses that are very good at what they do But not good at any of behind the scenes and then don't you know, so Um, had that been not with you and just with Horn, he would have run a business, but probably no matter how talented he was, ran it into the ground.

Because if you don't know how to do your taxes and your finances and grow a business and develop it and make sure all the policies in there, that's when it can fall from there.  As much as his job was important, yours is just as important. Definitely. And I was actually thinking about this in the shower before I came here.

So, um, I know that there's a lot of, um, like owner operators, especially in, um, your industry and they're creatives and they're not necessarily into the admin side of it, but. As a business owner, and especially when you're not a one man band and you have a team, it is your responsibility to learn about these things.

Yes. Um, because the ATO doesn't care if you don't know. Yes. It's your responsibility to know. Yeah. And you can really simplify your numbers to be something that you can check every single week to know where you're at.  And that's what was always really important. To me in the business is you can be turning over  multiple, multiple seven figures, which our business has done at times and your bottom line could be shit.

Yep. So people don't think that, you know, like you could be turning over 10 million a year, but if you've got 9 million, 9, 500, 000, like you're not.  You're turning over a million dollars, your business looks successful, but if your costs are just, you know, as, as exorbitant, you're, you know, you're only have make 10, 000 in profit.

Like that can be the case too. They don't put profit and loss together just for fun. Yeah. No. Even though I find it extremely fun,  not a lot of other people do. Um, and it's even, um,  a way of looking at is that most people in their business are overspending. Um, and if you don't have an allocation for your taxes and your super and your, um, payroll and everything like that, when, um, things go wrong,  it is so much harder to fix them.

And it's things, it's not even. Big things going on and you have four quiet weeks, you know, and all of a sudden you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, which is something that I always speak about. You have four crappy weeks and there is when it's going wrong. And then all of a sudden you're.  Uh, you know, chokehold and I can, you know, we're in the beginning of January.

I can feel that our business, you know, we've just started getting really busy again, but the last few weeks have been quiet. And if I didn't have a hold on everything, I would be absolutely in mayhem right now. But because I have everything put away. I am still like, I'm good. Yeah. I'm okay. But I am watching a lot of people not feel that way because they aren't secure in where their funds are sitting.

And also they don't know where to look. Like they don't, they don't actually, they're just seeing this and not thinking, Oh, okay, well actually I'm okay because this is here, you know, like they're just like, So many people say to me, but I make this money, where does it go? I'm like. It goes, you don't need to know where it goes, you need to find it, you need to be able to track it, all of those things.

And I operate through the bucket system. So, um, Hot Rock has five bank accounts. We have our main trading account, which all of our money comes into. Then we have our work cover is crazy. So we have a work cover account. We have an ATO account. We have our, um, supplies account. So, um, we're in stone. So we have a predominantly stone, um, A huge stone bill at the end of every month, that if you're not putting away for that, it's scary.

And that's what people, again, people go, they come to the end of the month and they go, Oh, I've got all my supplies I have to pay for. I'm like, you ordered that six weeks ago, you know that was coming. Yeah. Start to reverse it, put it away when it comes in, rather than thinking, because otherwise you overspend.

Absolutely. And you think that you're rich and you're not.  And then when it goes, you're like, I'm just pretty much going to go. Yeah. Pretty much. And it's scary. Especially when you were just talking about, um, like the dry spells or when things aren't, you know, coming in as much as you think they are that the same things just happened to us.

And it's happened to a lot of people, especially on the Gold Coast. that I know of this Christmas season. You close for your three to four weeks annually. You put away for that. That's my last account. I have a Christmas account that I put away for because all of my team is full time. I love how she's like, I got buckets.

I talk about having those holding accounts all the time because for me, I'd rather look at my trading account and be like, that's profit right now because everything else is allocated. So even though that feels. Like, I probably want it higher, but still just paying profit. So that's like, I'm good. That's okay.

Yeah. And because. Yeah, GST is just such a killer. But, um, and you pay Roll and Super and I pay those weekly. Yes. Like they are not even going, they're going into the bucket. Yes. And then they're getting debited out straight away because that money is not yours. Yes, absolutely. And that's a really key thing that people forget about.

I think people look at tax. I think sometimes people look at tax and they're like, but I'm just paying so many different taxes. It's like, yeah, but that. Is not your money, so it's actually your staff's money of their tax and their super. So unfortunately, you shouldn't even be thinking that that is your money you can spend on anything.

That, first of all, has to go, you pay their wages and you put that money aside. Because it's not yours, it's theirs. Yeah. And that's what you're going to get in trouble for if anything goes wrong right down the track. And, um, before when you mentioned like, uh, Horn not being necessarily great at the admin side, if you're not good at it, you also then need to surround yourself with people who are.

So if you don't have a business partner, you need to have a really great bookkeeper that you trust and a really great accountant. But when you say that, also still know what they're doing. Yes. Don't just go, I don't know anything, so I'm just going to, yep. And that's what happens. People go, well I'm paying someone else to do that.

So it's not my problem. But when you get asked a question and you're like,  What does that mean? Or when do I have to pay BAS again? I'll just borrow that money this week but it's due in five days. So.  Yeah, it's been, it's been a wild ride, especially from growing from a business that used to work underneath a tin shed, kind of nicking power from the person next door to now being in a thousand square metre factory with a huge team.

Like that, sometimes that extreme growth in a really rapid pace is something that people struggle with too, because, so when Horne passed. What size was the business then? That was when we were at our maximum size. Really? Okay. Yeah, so we had moved to the factory that we, well, the old factory. That's the next part of the story, yeah.

We'd moved, the same address. And um, we had like a team of about 28 then. Okay. And then after he passed away, the industry was actually Um, had, uh, it's own epidemic as such, where Was this the silicosis? Silicosis. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so we lost half of our team. Do you want to explain that? Yeah, so silicosis was a nationwide issue in Australia and around the world, where there was a, a, a dust and lung infection.

issue, which the materials, the engineered materials that were being used were actually quite harmful to the staff and when they weren't being, um, processed, like manufactured correctly. So when processed and manufactured correctly, there is a risk, but with PPE and correct processing that was kind of eliminated.

But in, um, June 30 of last year, that material was completely banned in Queensland and then entered the new materials that are zero silica. Yeah. Which are now completely safe and green tick approved to be using. Yeah. Amazing. So you lost a big group? 50%. Because of they were terrified of it? Uh, some people did leave the industry as precautionary, but a lot of people got a do not return to work from work cover.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So was your work cover bill crazy before that happened or was it? It was moderate. Yeah. But now it's like six figures. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Six figures guys. So when I whinge about what I pay, I'm going to shut up because six figures in work cover because of these certain things that happen.

Yeah. So and like high six figures. Yes. Not like just scraping like into the six figures. They have come down. It's been, um.  It's been five years since the whole silicosis thing came out. I'm never ever going to think about my work cover ever again. It's why it has its own bucket. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, I put away for work cover every week.

It's like a hundred bucks. Yeah, no. Um, oh my God, don't say that.  And I think that's hard. It's like I just threw up in my mouth. And I think that's how I win about it being hard. Oh no. I'm always like. Bill. Um, so yeah, it's, it, it was really, really hard because we had a Do you think that helped though with the circumstances that you were in, that the team reduced at that time?

No. No? Because a lot of our really key people Okay, okay. And, um, unfortunately, um, a lot of younger people. As well as some of the, the older, um, guys, they, you know, just started families that were very frightened and scared and, you know, were  kind of like, really.  Media, fear based information. And when we, like, when we talk about that, it's, it was like when asbestos, that big thing came out.

It's a good comparison. Yeah. To that. It is, it damages people's lungs. Well, asbestos is like a, a cancer causing, as well as lungs, but you can get it on your skin and have, um. Um, negative results from that where the silicosis is purely in your lungs. So what happens is if you ingest the particles, they go into your lungs and your lungs naturally try to repair themselves, building scars over the dust and then it, um, fills up your lung capacity and you either need a lung transplant, but technology is also evolving and there's another process of lung flushing that has been successful for some people too.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Um, it was just really crazy time.  Something you're just like.  Okay, how do we work with this? It's not like it's like a nationwide thing that happens all of a sudden like asbestos did and yeah, you know, and you're this woman who's like how, how long after that did Hornstein did all that happen?

Yeah, that was the next year. Yeah. I think it's really important to mention too, and we don't have to go into how, but this has no relation. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. I thought people are going to be like, how did he die? Because like, that's like a number one thing. So  Bridget would have text anytime she hears.

And I'm not like, I'll tell you what happened.  She's like, okay, I need to know. No, I'm very much an open book. And I used to have my own podcast and there's more like long winded version of the story on there. But, um, so he actually, um, had  an unfortunate incident at home where he drowned. So he drowned in our family swimming pool.

Um, they call it hypoxia. It does, it still to this day does not make any sense to me. Um, and he, um, yeah, unfortunately we were too late to, to find him and revive him. And, um, yeah, it was just a really bad day. Yeah. Yeah. So, um. Really bad day. Yeah. Yeah. And so.  We were living like our best life like we had just um, you know, we'd had our kids, we'd had our wedding, the business was going great, we were like, we just sold our house on the Friday and then he died there and then I'm like, oh my god, are these people still gonna want our house?

Like, do I have to get out? Can I stay? Like, it was just like, oh my god. I remember saying to you like, yeah, who was the first person you called and how did that go down? And Ashe was like, I was just like,  Oh, like your friends were coming over? No, my friends were going out for lunch. They were going out for lunch.

And like, he, we had had like an argument that morning. And, um, I was like really pissed off and I like rang, um, my friend. She didn't answer. And then I rang, um, my friend's husband and he answered. And I was just like, horn's dead. And they were like laughing because like. They actually thought,  like, it's just like a figure of speech that I was like, and they're like, ha ha, what's he done now?

And I'm like, no, no, he's dead. Like the police have told me I need to call someone. So I've called you, can you come over here and help me? And sorry, I, I laugh when I get nervous because I know people be like, why is she laughing? Like she shouldn't be laughing. But um, yeah, so it was just on the Friday was our, um, Our wedding anniversary and then on the Sunday he was gone and there was a, in our house sale.

Yeah, I know. I got that then too. I know this story and Ashe, like, she's, yeah, just, I tell you the strength in this woman is mental. And one of the things that was on, because this is probably another, like, piece of information that if you're not doing it, please do it. Because it caused so many issues.

Massive. This is a good one. We had sold our house and one little book said. Do you have a will, would you like to speak to our team about a will? And we had ticked, yeah, sure. We can chat wills, but not today.  We'll do that on Monday. Um, and sign the paperwork. And then we've gone out for lunch because it's our wedding anniversary.

I'm sorry, we went out for dinner because it was our wedding anniversary. Um, and just that one little box, the him not having a will. And, you know, we were so young, so I was, um, 31, he was 33, and then that led into  Another six figures spent on deciphering what gets done with all of his things. And there was no pushback from anyone.

Like, so we didn't have any, it was still such a process, years, like a year long process, years of process to get something that no one was fighting for. No one wanted anything to do with, but we had two children. So the children are, of course, um, entitled to. Um, whatever, but usually when you have a will, it will stipulate like whoever is still alive will get it. 

Not having business partners that are two and four, they were pretty useless, still are.  So I'm like, um, so they inherited 50 percent of the business, which also then meant that  every time I took a dollar, I had to give them 50 cents each.  And I'm like, but I have to pay for them to live  . It should just all come to me.

And then I divvy I'm their mom. But it doesn't. Yeah, but it doesn't, so, um, yeah. So many hurdles. Yeah. Like so many hurdles of just so you don't have a will definitely get one. Because for me was really, it's actually, I, that was one other thing I was thinking, we need someone to make estate planning fun and explain it.

Yeah. To see like, 'cause people don't think this No, they don't think it's important. I did. I just. done my will and my, I'm very lucky that one of my best mates works for a law firm. So, and I know the lawyer really well, but I had to, because I've got to protect my children and my estate against. But also he who shall not be named, but I needed to know, like, I also need to put like who takes care of it, you know, and it's those things like for me, who, cause I, you have to make sure that that person that's my brother and sister, my brother in law and my sister for me, it's like, I, they know, he knows that he knows money.

I know how it, that's going to look. I know how he knows how the kids, he knows how I want them raised. Like, they're so fierce on that you need it. But I also think there's so many people in your circumstances who are happy and young and living their best lives that don't actually realise how hard it is if something happens and you don't, because it's like, oh well it'll just be, and it's not.

Yeah. It's actually not. And, you know, most people don't just die. Yeah. So.  Um, usually there's an illness or an accident or something that can, you know, I'm not saying always, but majority of the time. And so my partner now that I have, his wife also passed away and she passed away. Another bit of the story.

So juicy. She passed away from cancer. So, you know, that was a very different journey for him and his family and her family as it was for ours, because while it's still incredibly sad.  There's processing time. There's processing time. So, and look, I don't know what's worse, knowing that it's going to happen or not knowing it's going to happen.

Um, but it would have, we would have prepared for it in a way that wouldn't have added so much additional stress and headaches to something that was already filled with stress and headaches daily. Mm. So, um.  So you will like, okay. Let's keep going with this business. Let's keep moving it. So, yeah, I Your business partners were worse than useless, but you kept them on.

Cause you were two and four. I actually, um Um, one of the things that my team at work are so important to me, we, we call it like the HRG fam bam, and we've all been incredibly close for a long period of time. And this was prior obviously to losing half the team with, um, silicosis, but I went to work the Monday morning  at 5.

30 AM, um, to tell them myself what had happened and to tell them.  Give me a chance. Give me a chance to do this on my own. Um, because I'm gonna give it my best shot.  And I definitely can't do it without any of you. Yeah. And, um, this was his, like, baby. Yeah. And he loved it so much and he loved you guys so much.

Um, that let's just see what we can, what we can do together. So no one knew before that 5. 30 meeting? Not anyone, um.  A few people that were working there were actually like my brother, my brother works with me. Um, my best friend was working there at the time. So there were people that knew on, at the friendship circle level.

But extended out that we always joke about this, which is not funny. Um, we had a new admin, admin girl start on the Friday. It was her first day on the Friday. And she was like, and no one had her phone number because like it wasn't in our phones yet. She kind of just arrived. So on the Monday she's come to work and she's like, What's going on?

Why is everybody so sad? And we're like, oh, I have something to tell you. And I reckon for a good like five minutes, she's like, are they playing a trick on me? Are they? Are they? Are they? Are they?  And then she's, and she was so beautiful and she handled it like a trooper. And she answered, cause no one like wanted to answer the phone, like obviously clients like I said, it would have been a blessing, right?

Cause she didn't have the connection. She could remove herself from this and be like, I can pick this up and I can keep going.  So yeah, it was like, yeah, we, we only just spoke about that the other day because she's still with you. No, she actually moved on into like the silicosis industry.  Um, but, um, my, one of my best friends at the time who was.

She'd only been working there for a year and she's now been there for nine years. She came on as a business partner last year. So, and so did my, um, late husband's like right hand man too, I see. He's also a business partner. So I think that's a real beautiful thing of it too, is Ashe, like you, you. Stayed in and everyone worked together and you, and then you got to the point where that you were like, these are pinnacle people that I could not run this business without.

And don't want to. And don't want to. Yeah. So then you looked at it overall and then they became business partners. So then you had your support again with your business partners as well. Yeah. Which they already felt like that to me anyway. They were such key people. And um, you know, as I mentioned, they, as a shareholder of the business and a director, They purchased shares in the business that were essentially my son's.

Yep. So I was really, um, securing their inheritance, getting their part of the business paid out to them. So then whether I invest that in other ways for them, so when they finally get to an age where they can do something with money, um, you know, they've got a good start to life there. Yeah, amazing. Okay.  I don't even know where we want to take this next.

So I, let's go, um,  personal wise and then we'll go, cause then there's another business. So then, um, as you said before, so your partner, um, you guys kind of knew each other. Yeah. We were like friends with benefits and we were like 19. Had a little summer fling,  but always remained, um, Yeah. So yeah. And then you lost one and then he lost his, he actually lost his wife first.

Okay. Yeah. So, um, eight months prior to horn passing away, his wife passed away and then horn passed on his birthday. Yeah. Horn passed on Eden's birthday. What? Yeah. Really? Yes. Which is next week. So it'll be eight years next week. And look, I feel like  sometimes I hate that because it's like. Yeah. On a day that's meant to be about Eden.

Yeah. Yeah. And I more care for Eden. Yeah. Like, I, um, I've never really.  Celebrated that day in regards to Horn. We always celebrate his birthday. We have a big group that all come together and that's a really nice day. Um, and then everyone kind of just does their own thing. So funny. The other day we were driving in Talley and we would drive like off the highway.

Yeah. And I was like, look at all those little eches on the side of the road. Oh my goodness. And then I was like. Hahaha. Uh, I'm pretty sure I know who those boys are and then you put up a photo of you all being at the tavern and I was like,  I knew that that was going to be the boys. The telly rats. 

They're out in full force. Yeah, Jesus. I was like, I'm pretty sure I knew two of those children that were in that S. A. group. Yeah.  You know, you can't. Get them. They just have to like go E ed. And I always like tomatoes. You can't let them wear that. You, you could. They, they have to get trained,  like no. They have to look back on these photos and think what's about.

Exactly. Yeah. They absolutely have to. I'm like, can we swear? Give them Yeah, absolutely. Absolute. Oh Jesus  give them their right. I'm like, maybe I've already done that. Give them their rite of passage. Yeah. And then look back and be like, look what you wanted to wear  . I'm like, how good was this one? So then you guys kind of, so then you, um, lost ho and then, and when he had.

Um, Eden has a son, yes. So we have the three boys who are 10, 11, and 12. So like, they're like our like triplets. Um, but yeah, so Jess, she passed away in 2016 and Horne passed away at the start of 2017. Um, we obviously knew that Jess was unwell. Like I remember lying in bed the morning that I heard that Jess had passed away and it was just like to Horne.

She died like we know someone that died like and she was five years younger than me So she was very young at the time. She was 26  and I was just like I can't believe it. Like what's he gonna do? Hmm like He's got a child, like it was so foreign to any of us and, you know, social media also wasn't massive, you know, let's go back all this time.

Like it was around, but no one spoke about anything bad or gloomy or grief or trauma or anything. It was like highlight reel central, like I'm fabulous, my life's great. So it was really kind of like an empty space. to be like my life is fucked. I'm like, what am I doing?  Drinking lots of wine.  Scraping through each time.

I'm like woo! Let's go again! Today is going to be fun. Can't wait to see what tomorrow holds. 

And then how you guys kind of, I remember you saying you kind of got together, you just spent a lot of time together. Like, and it's, you know, no one understands what you've gone through. My best friend is also married to his best friend. Oh ok. and I did end up leaving the home, um, I, the sale went through and it was actually to a beautiful family.

Well, a lady and her children whose husband had passed away a few years prior and she had come to the house and met Horne and I and the kids. And it was very weird. I didn't know people did that when they bought houses. Um, but it just, she just like, I feel connected. They planted a tree at the house for Horne, um, family to, to take over all of the happy times that we had, but I obviously could not have stayed there.

Like, um, it, we were leading into winter, so I kind of just avoided the pool for like the next three months. But then when it was time to go, I moved in with my best friend and her husband. And um, that's when, you know, Um, and then I was like, Oh, Hey,  Hey, widow friend, I'm part of a board that I don't want to be a part of, I'm like, and here I was feeling sorry for you,  like a funny turn of events over here.

Um, but yeah, so it was, um, such a weird time. It's such a weird time. And now even looking back, coming up to eight years and everything that has. It's  happened in those eight years. It's been very eventful. Um, I'm still have so much empathy for other people when I see on social media that something happens to them in this like realm of like loss, whether, yeah, it's, it's a partner, a child, a family member, a parent.

Um, it's just like, your life's just never the same again. Like, and as much as I used to try, like, I wish someone told me that, like, you're trying to do something that's impossible. You will never be the same. Yeah. And I spent so much time trying to get back, get back, whereas like, no, you're actually something so much time now, like, and I'm like, I wish I was just like more accepting in the beginning that I didn't have to fight for something that wasn't possible.

Yeah. It was more like. work towards the future because you ain't never going back Yeah. Yeah. That is a really solid piece of advice. There's a lot of people that are going through, lots have been through trauma right now, or going, Oh god, that is so true. I just need to focus on who I am now and where I'm going rather than trying to think that anything's going to be the same as, Yeah.

Cause it It used to be, i was like. It ain't. Yeah. It just ain't. Yeah. And it, it's exhausting. Yeah. It's isolating. It's exhausting. Yeah. Um, rather than just forward.  Forward planning, even like sometimes, and I know that no sort of healing person is going to like what I'm going to say now, because it's all about being present, but you know, sometimes the present moment is just too much.

It's too much. It's just too much. And you're like, okay, well, tomorrow's a new day or next month I'm going on a holiday or like something like that. So I think having that balance of both of knowing that the present exists, but there's so much to look forward to and working towards that. Yeah. Incredible.

Yeah. God, you're amazing. Talk about the day you said you wanted to burn the business to the ground. Oh,  so,  Hot Rock has just been  A business. A business. It's been a business. It's hot peaks and valleys and peaks and valleys and peaks and valleys. Yeah, and uh, it's We, we just, Christmas time is just a strange, well, it would be very similar in your industry too.

It's like, no one thinks that they need their hair done like prior to Christmas. Oh my God, we need a kitchen finished before Christmas. We need to impress the in laws. We need a new kitchen and we need it now. And so, you know, our business is quite substantial. We would book out maybe like  August.  For the rest of the year, um, and then it's all the favours, come on mate, slip me in because, you know, client relations matter.

So you're like, okay. And then you're like, Oh fuck, what are we doing? We're going on strapping again. We're off. It's Christmas. Um, so, you know, it's always a really intense time. Yep. For a lot of tradies, they have deadlines, they close. So any business that closes for a period of time, we close for three weeks, everything has to be done.

That day, that deadline day, there's no more days. Yeah. People need to go home, spend time with their families and get themselves excited for Christmas. So on the last day of work, um,  December 20th.  2019. Um, we were like getting ready to crack open. What year did Horn pass away? 2017. Okay, so this is two years later.

Yeah. Yep. Okay, two years later guys. Two years later. Only two years later. So were you a big team or has your team reduced by now? Team, so 2018 was silicosis. Oh, okay. Yeah.  We're doing the time line. 2018 was horn, 2018 was silicosis. 2019, December 20th, . So we are finishing up for the, for the day, for the year.

And so I was like, oh fuck, let's burn this bitch to the ground.  , we're exhausted, we're done. And I was like laughing and I was like, turn their computers off and the PowerPoints and all the things and I'm like, let's go have a drink. Um, and so we've just like vacated and everyone's gone and enjoyed their Christmas and. 

I was like, I'd moved into a new place and I was just sitting out watching the beach and I was like, Oh, this is just so nice. Like, you know, I'm not hung over. It's Boxing Day. Had a lovely Christmas and a phone call on my phone. And I was like, Oh, that's so weird. It was my like foreman. And I'm like, he's not much of a caller.

But I was like, maybe he's ringing to see how my Christmas was. He was not in fact ringing to see how her Christmas was. And I was like, but actually he would just text me that. So I'm like, hi, what are you doing is don't panic. I'm like, cool. Not the person.  Not the person who's like. There's a small fire.

So it's very hard to explain, but so we have a larger factory, but we also leased two smaller factories in the same complex to store things in like slabs and all of my shit from my house that didn't fit in my new house. And I'm like, I'll just store that until I'm ready to deal with that. It's like, don't panic. 

One of the little sheds had a little fire. No big deal. I'm just gonna go check on it because like, I've got nothing to do and I was like, Oh, well, I'm not really doing anything either. Um, so I'll pop down. The house that we lived in, there was a, like a toilet under the stairs and Edam's not allowed to go to the bathroom in our bathroom.

So he, he, Pooh's under the stairs. And so we call it, we used to call him Harry Pooter. And so,  and so I couldn't find him because he was under the stairs. And so I'm like, Oh, I'll just text him. I'm like, Oh, I'm going, going to work. Like there's a little fire. I'll be back soon. Like, no problem. And so I'm like driving down Dog Coast Highway, turning um, our factories in Burley and I get to like Stockland's and I'm like, that's a lot of smoke in the sky.

And then I get a message from like someone that I haven't spoken to in ages and they're like, Oh, I'm so sorry about your factory. And I'm like, Oh my God,  what is happening? And I'm like, must put pedal to acceleration, must push, must keep driving. My legs were like shaking and the sky was just fiercely black.

And I was like, something is horribly wrong right now. And I've just made it into our street before the, um, fire engines have like. Blocked off the street and I've driven up into our like complex on top of this hill and there's just like 12 fire engines Like thick smoke everywhere. You couldn't even see the building.

There was so much black thick smoke and I was just like, oh dear  Like I just sat on the ground and I'm like Fuck and then I just felt like this hand on my shoulder and it was my foreman. I got there before him  And he's like, just looked at me and he just started crying and I'm like, yeah, fuck. I'm like, I don't, I, I'm lost.

Oh my God. There's just no words.  Uh, and they put out the fire, took a little while and I'm like, it doesn't look that bad. Like the front was still standing.  I'm like, I reckon we're okay. I think that the smoke was just making it look really scary. And then there was like a satellite, cause it's on the news and stuff.

And there was like a satellite image and like the whole back's missing.  It's just the front without a sign. And then the rest is gone. And I was like,  Okay, we're not okay. Fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck. So what started it? Um, again, long processing time for that. So, the, Um, the factory was actually a shared factory, so I leased half of it to another business and the fire started in their business.

And after about 18 months, they believe possibly a faulty air conditioner or the air conditioner was left on because they finished on the Friday the 20th as well for their Christmas vacay. That it maybe had just been running for like six days straight and had a little moment. It was too badly damaged for them to safely investigate.

What had happened, but they just knew that there wasn't anything like malicious or  suspicious. Yeah, not an arson situation. No, so.  Now this is another learning, like, what we're going to learn from here is the next, like, I'm still like this every time Ashe tells this story. What we're going to learn about this was the next piece that came with that, and that was our insurance.

Yeah, insurance. And I have lots of insurances. Yep.  I've never seen Jen so in her chair like that. Then what? So Richard, cancel the rest of the day. This is Yeah, I'm like This is a five part This is a five part This is what I was like, I'm not the right guest to like, hit on any specific topic.  Um So many learning things though.

So, I had had the same insurance broker for  I'm going to say five and he was great, but he left in  2018 and started his own, um, brokerage. And he had a one year, like do not compete, which is very standard for things like that. And he was like,  I'll call you in a year.  Like your policies are good. Duh, duh, duh, duh.

I'm like, okay, cool. Enters the new broker who's like,  I need to, um, come and review your policies. They're up for renewal, like dah, dah, dah. And I was like, yeah, sure. No worries. And, um, my, um,  accounts department was in the meeting. I was in the meeting and I had not really ever looked at these policies  in great depth previously.

Um, and at the time he asked me a question, which is probably why I'm so frantic on numbers now, he said, well, how much profit do you make a year?  And he goes, Oh, do you make 2, 000, 000 profit a year? And I started laughing and I said, I fucking liked it.  And he goes, well, that's what you're insured for 2, 000, 000.

You're paying too much insurance.  And being that horn had passed away, I'd lost all my team. And I was like, Oh, well, I'm never going to make as much profit.  He asked, and I just wanna say to everyone, he asked how much profit, not how much the business turnover to run. Yeah. And turnover, how much profit.

Mm-hmm. And you cannot do it based on profit. Profit. Mm-hmm . So there is a net because profit changes net profit, but there's, there's a net profit and there's a gross profit. Yeah. So he was speaking in gross profit? Yeah. And I was speaking in net profit. Yes. Okay. And this was not confirmed. Yeah.  But, again, I don't want to skip ahead, so he has done that, and I was like, oh, 2 million.

No.  And so he's like, well, like, 500. He said, what's the most profit you've ever made? And I answered the question. He said, well, let's round it up to 500. You'll be completely safe. He was in our business. He was in a 1, 000 square metre shed with 20, at this point, sorry, like, it would have been maybe 20 staff.

Accounts department, office, showroom, like, estimator, all these things, sitting there.  And so he was there and he was like, so I'm going to reduce that. And I was like, oh, okay. And this was in the December. And then the Oh my god. Yeah, well this was in the December of 2018. Oh 2018, right, that's right. So at the same time, um, the, um, the accounts department, the, um, representing from the accounts department, also left the business and come roll around the 31st of January, it's time to like renew these policies.

And because it was like mid December, I was like, oh, you know, that's not urgent, it's Christmas, like we need to get through the schedule and like all that. I'll look at it like the first week of January.  They've sent the policies to her email address,  which, like, didn't come to me, and I was not really checking hers.

I kind of forgot about her role for a little bit, because it was like January, and you're not very busy in January. And so I think I looked maybe like a week before the policies were due, and I was like, oh.  Okay. I don't know how to read these. Like am I comparing apples to bananas? Like is this the same as last year's policy?

Because I don't really know. So I sent it to my legal team to have a look and be like, am I insured? Like maximum insurance? Like am I looked after? If anything was going to happen and they're like, yes, yes, yes, all good.  So I'm like, okay, this got back to me like on the 31st of Jan, like it's time to pay the policy.

So I'm like, da, da, da.  And this is what we talk about obviously when I said to you before when we, you need to try and look at it and, you know, get that because if you just trust people from blind pathways, sometimes it And also, I did all the right  things, but sometimes it doesn't work out. And the reason why I was already so paranoid about it is because even though Horn had life insurance, I did not get any life insurance from a clause in the insurance and something that was listed in his medical records.

What? Yeah. Yeah. So that happened. I forgot about that piece. Yeah. So you had life insurance because of Which I don't mind saying it. Um, one of the policy in one of the questions, it says, um, do you do illicit drugs? And he's ticked no, as everyone does. Apparently every single person says no, even if they take it every now and then.

But  it says like, have you ever done? It's like a past question. Yeah. And he ticked no. And his medical file from like 5 or 10 years previously had him going to the doctor after having like a big night when he was like younger saying, you know, I've, I've done illicit drugs like da da da da. So they, they go through all of your records and they circled it back and sent it and was like denied.

He lied. Dickheads. God, I hate insurance companies. That is scum of the earth type situation. From like, five years previous. That is proper scumbags. It blows my mind, right? You know, even things like that.  You know, you think  Yeah, I just, it's  You've got to be so cautious on when you and and I think that's I don't I don't have life insurance I think that's the fuck bit you have to be why for that very well from that one thing Well, I took drugs when I was in my 20s and whatnot.

Yeah, like I'm like what's floating about out there. Yeah That's all these premiums  You meant to get this I've got no money. If you're going to the doctor, you're going for your mental health, like, I don't want to do this anymore, this is not a good thing for me, so can I make sure that I, like, can you help me?

Even if it was just that one off time, like, and no one can judge on this, right, because everyone has done something. Oh yeah, totally. And, and it, yeah, it turned around and bit him in the arse because he was doing something, he did, went to the doctors once to be like, okay, I probably shouldn't do this. Like, what's the point of having a natural health card?

That makes me so mad. Yeah. And like, the time frame of how far away it was. Like, you know, do you ever get a clean slate or does this just follow you around forever? Yeah, forever. But anyway, so I was already a bit funny on insurances and scared and whatnot, but I was like, business insurance is key because it's not about a person, it's about a business and you need to be able to operate.

Um, but yeah, so  that's happened and then I've got the lawyer, they've signed off, I've gone okay. This is in January. So, I get the call in December being like, it's nearly been a year,  I can do your insurance again. I'll touch base with you in January. I say, yay! Of the old broker. Yeah. Yeah. So, my fave broker.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. Well, I'm going to sign all the paperwork now. So, when we come back, like, you can just start the process and then we'll catch up before renewal time. It's like, yep, yep, yep. So, that was also on the 20th of December. It was like my last little job, like, signing it. Scanning it over, tick, did something good today. 

And so then I've got the call, I've raced down, burnt down, terrible. And then I was like, oh.  Do you think I can get a hold of anyone on Boxing Day to let me know like what the hell I need to do? Because my business is also kind of like this, in a body corporate. Yeah. So like, I can't just act on my own accord.

I have to get permissions to do things and like, I'm just getting, Hi, I'm on holidays. Have a great day. Merry Christmas. And I'm like, Oh, I'm like, am I allowed to bulldoze the place? Like I need to get started. I need to rebuild. I got to do this. I got to do that. Which like was not realistic. And so I'm like, Oh, I will call my broker.

The one I love. The one I love. And he was like, I'm like, hello.  It's like, hi, what are you going for? And I'm like, Oh, sorry. Business. Funny story. But, um, the business has burnt down. He goes, don't worry. I know your policies. They're great. You could not do a thing for a year and be totally covered. And I was like,  Great. 

Great news. Thank you so much. I'll chat to you later. Enjoy. Happy New Year.  I can have a wine now. I'm just sitting in the boot of my car, like watching the firemen and stuff. And then  he calls me back.  He goes, um, I'm just looking at your policies because you said I'd have a look to make sure like nothing.

Cause you'd signed him across and said, these are my policies. And he can also like, I've, I've signed authority that he can act on my behalf.  Um, and he's like, I was just having a little look  and, um, there's been a few changes and I'm like, has there  like completely like unaware. And he's like, um, so I had business interruption insurance for 2 million. 

Which had been brought down to 500, 000. Which got brought down to 500, 000. To save, no, to save me 300, 000 on the policy. Oh my god. 300, 000 for the year. Oh my god. 2 million down to 500, 000 that saved her 300, 000. 300. And not to mention the fact how much she spends in work. I've got 300 to her, which is like, it's lunch. 

It's a lunch.  It's like a Tuesday lunch. It's not even a weekend lunch.  And I was like,  fuck. I was like, Oh my God. Why? Why? And then I'm like, is this him? Then I had the battle. Is this him being like fresh start? Like, and funnily enough,  All the insurance payouts would have been equal to his life insurance if I had have just not read.

If I not had tried again, it would have been like the same amount of money to just go and be free.  But I was like, no, you know, how much was Hans life insurance? 3 million. See guys, it's 3 million. It's not, we're not looking at like, yeah, he had a life insurance of 800, 000. She lost three. million. Yeah.

Because of that one thing. Yeah. So please everyone, look into the life insurance policies. That is disgusting. That like I think a lot of people always thought, oh well she, I, I don't, I, like people close to me know about the insurance like not coming through. Um, it was a long time after he passed away that it was like 15 months to get a yes or a no.

So that was a process in itself. This is what I talk about when we talk about Ashe. Like, and more of that story will come, but like the ability for Ashe to surrender into something like it's incredible how much time you've had to just wait and give it over and be like, all right, I'm going to make peace with this.

And it sounds like something that from, from my point of view with what I'm going through at the moment, having a friend that's gone through this is been  incredible for me because I go, I've watched what you've gone through and I've watched. 

Um, and I'm like, and I spend time with you and I'm like, she's like, we can laugh out some things and you're so peaceful at peace with it. And I'm like, that's how ultimately I want to show up because other people would be a wreck and wouldn't have. Who they are, like how they would let every single one of these situations define who they are.

Yeah, and not just keep pushing forward, you know, like it's not like pushing for it. That sounds wrong. Do you know what I mean? Just keep putting one foot in front of the other towards your future. And I think the, if I do something  to someone's benchtop, I go out and replace it. Yeah.  Yeah. So.  Yeah.

Insurance is yeah. It's sounds boring, but it's required. Yep.  And that's why the meetings are annual. Because your business can change. Your business can change. Like you said, you were operating when you first started. Like if you have a broker, they check in with you. They say, before we come, send us any information.

And then we'll sit down and go through it. We'll offer you the new policies, what's available on the market. Like, I have a management liability insurance. So if any of my um, senior team members do something that they shouldn't, I'm not the one that has to cop it. There's a new policy for that. Yeah, wow.

Yeah.  Hence the bucket. I just, there's still so much. I'm like, we're definitely going to have to do part two because there is still so much because I wanted to talk into the cafe. Yeah. So much. So much. Some of it's boring. It's like, no, no, no, Ashe, it's just going to be like a mini series. Yeah, totally.  Every other week.

Because, Rich, how many minutes are we at so far?  Yeah. Yeah. It's like another three hours to go, so. We need to, we need to work through like years. It's like, okay, so we've come in 2017. We should have had a timeline. I know. We should have been like, oh, Ashe just needs one, like we're just with Ashe for the day.

We're just going to keep doing the different part series. We're not even up to 2020. 

Honestly, do  you, can you come back for part two? Yeah. These days I'm like semi retired. I don't do anything. So I was very honored. Again though, but I want to show, I want to talk about this though, because, you know, Um, exactly as Ashe just said, these days I'm semi retired, like I've got so much space and so much free time and so, and I want to talk about this because I think this is really important because I think this is,  uh, the goal for many people when they're in different scenarios.

But I want to do that because there's other things we need to talk on as well. Um, so that next, that next one we'll just book Ashe in. Yeah. Um, but in that already, as we said at the beginning of this episode. You learn so much from people that are in different industries that all still apply to you because you're a business Person like you're you're in a business It's the resilience and the tenacity and the patience and they're just like okay now we just oh We're on the top of this wave or at the bottom of this wave, you know  Yeah, I think, yeah, I think as I love that at the beginning you said like everyone is their lived experience and your story is no more important, but I think hearing stories like this and having, um, people that have gone through stuff like this, it does, does definitely give you.

Perspective. Perspective. And, you know, the way that you've been able to, um, like, support women, I know, like, Ashe used to have her podcast, like, the way that you've been able to support women through, because you've been through things, like, I know for me, if stuff like that happened, I know the first girl I'd be calling, because she understands more than anything, what,  All of that feels like, whereas I can't even, I can't even comprehend, you know, what you've gone through and how you've gone through and how you're just such a incredible, positive, wonderful human now.

Um, and always have been, but it's, yeah, a lot of people would let these stories define them and  even though it's your story, it doesn't singly, those single events don't define you and they're huge. Yeah.  Is this a chapter? It's a chapter of the book. It's a big book.  It's a Harry Potter series.  Harry Pooter.

Harry Pooter series.  Alright, so the next chapter we're going to do is from 2020. Yeah. Um, because I think the next part of the story is the nicer part of the story. We've gone into some pretty heavy stuff and the next part of the story is is going into  some really good chapters. But I think, to close this chapter, what are the lessons, like, what's the one thing, I love the fact that you said, like, keep, as much as, you know, people are like, in the moment, in the moment, keep looking forward, keep looking forward, we're not going to try and get back to who we were, because that's not achievable.

Is there any other,  like,  points of advice from that portion, from that?  I think also with business owners, when you can feel burnout, frustration, throwing in the towel. You know, is this an isolated moment or is this something that I've been carrying for a long time? Yeah, and do I need to make changes or is it just this one? 

Particular situation where I'm feeling like this because again, we've had chats about that too and sometimes things are just a moment and you need to you have other things in your life that are impacting the way that you feel at work and It's not forever  and then those certainly I've been through that.

Certainly. Yeah, I said she knows that because she's ridden waves with me But when your personal life is heavy, and you're trying to change this life to make everything easier,  it's not always the case. Like, it's not where you're meant to be, but you're doing it because you're like,  I need to relieve some type of pressure.

And, you know, I think it's really important to look at whether it is an isolated event or whether you are literally living this every day.  Yeah. And where your energy goes, I think the reason why, you know, there's been some big moments in my life, but then like the smaller moments, I'm like, well, I even care about this in like five days.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Like let alone five years.  So I'm like, yeah. And it's so easy to just, you know, really wind yourself up, especially as women in business too. We have hormones and all different things impacting our like decision making for a certain certain week of the month. Um, but yeah, just having grace and patience with yourself and, you know, really checking in and saying, is this feeling temporary or what can I do?

Or is there something fundamentally underlying here that needs to be changed? Yeah. And don't be afraid to change or try something and fail. Mmm. Yes. I've watched this space. Gemma is just like, I now, like I said to Gemma, we were sitting in the cafe and I was talking to Rachel. It's just like. Kind of explain Ashe to me, and I was just like, oh, and I, and Jen, you can tell Jen was just like, get me into this podcast,  and I even, like, being able to listen to your story again, I'm just like. 

Fuck, this is so good. I'm in such awe of you. Um, thank you. Guys, stay tuned for part two. We're booking a room today. It'll be an outfit change. We're doing a part two. We are. Yep. I'll be back. She'll be back. If she doesn't I'll drag her back. so much. No, you're coming back. We're going to put it in the diary now.

It's happening. Yeah. End of story. Thank you. Um,  Thank you so much. Thank you for the first part.  I look forward to the second. We can ask the listeners if they actually want me back. No, no. I literally, as Jen and I, is just watching Jen move forward in her seat. She was almost going to fall on top of us. I know everyone is feeling the same way, so your story is So, there's so many pieces that people take out of this and go, Holy shit, I'm doing that.

Holy shit, I'm doing that. Holy shit, I'm checking that. So, thank you. I just love the joyful way that you share the horrors in your life as well. You know, it's like you've taken that moment to be like, Yeah, this is what happened. Yeah, yeah. It's like the most uplifting, terrifying podcast of your life. It is.

That's how it's going to be measured. The title. The title. Yeah. We title it the most horrific, uplifting, positive,  Podcast you've ever heard. Positive, heartbreaking podcast you'll ever listen to.  Thanks guys. Thank you so much guys and we'll see you soon. See you soon.