A Story of Strength, Setbacks and Starting Again – with Alex Fuchs

transcript

I looked in that mirror and for some reason this energy came over me. I don't know what it was, but it was very much like, this is it Alex, this is your turning point.

 Some people need to just feel heard and seen and this is the place they get to do it. Yeah. Like, that's an honor.

 Sometimes you just have to do something you don't want to do.

Mm-hmm. The best you can do is get some kind of silver lining or learnings out of it. Out of it.

 No one walks into macers and goes, yeah, well this is not the same person that served me last time.

Yeah. Or a coffee shop and goes, well this is not the same person. But people walk into salon's and go, oh, everyone seems new.

 the Swiss Army knife. He goes, yeah,

where is it? It's in my kitchen. at home

here in Australia. I was like, listen, You're all, I,

 that's the one thing I like

 for six months and multiple infections and scars internally and externally I'm keeping that eye. I'm keeping my

 yeah, I'm taking my knife, and I'm keeping it.

 We're down to

like 50 to 60 clients a week and

I know them all. Mm.

and

I know their stories and I'm like getting to really like focus on women

 our industry, which is amazing, and we love,

we

need to put the focus back on the client clients and the client connection.

 I think we, we just we went

to places

 I knew we would though.

 We went to places.

 See that's what I like

about getting older.

 Yeah.

 It's good, isn't it?

 Isn't it?

 Yeah. I like it.

I

mean, you know, bit tired and stuff, but

 other always

 otherwise, great.

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Welcome back to the Inner Sanctum Sell on Rising the podcast. Good mornings, mark. Good

 morning.

 You got a little angsty with me this morning, mate. Over our, our, our lovely guest that's joining us.

 Yeah. I thought

Jen had written a really cute story being like.

You know, so excited to catch up with my friend today. And I looked at it and I thought, Aw, that's

really sweet. I walked in being a bit of a bitch 'cause I was

in a bad mood. And then I looked at it again and as she tagged Alex in it, it wasn't to do

with me. So,

 to be fair, I saw you 24 hours ago and I get to catch up with you.

But this friend we don't get to see very often. And I'm so excited that finally after 18 months

 we did it.

 Alex, did it. Alex is here.

 is here.

 like the best part of our

Buddha pest trip.

 I know

how we met each other. Oh, we were, Did we meet each other on the food tour?

 Yes. Yes.

 Yeah, I know. And We fell in love over a,

 over a, um,

 what was it called?

 It's like a stew, what did they call

 it? Yes. the most famous thing. about

hungry. It's

 not, it's not a strong off

 goulash. Goulash.

 thanks, rich.

 Over a Goulash. and A beer.

 over a Goulash and a beer. We all fell in love.

 I know.

 Yeah. Trauma bonded over like compulsory conscription and all sorts of things that Alex shared

with us that day.

But I want you, 'cause you've got so many roles at the moment, so I would like you

to introduce yourself

as your APEC role and then your salon role. Yeah, please.

 So just over a year ago? A Year Exactly. Actually yeah. year in one day I took the role on as Asia Pacific Color Master for Kevin Murphy International, which has been like this massive dream role I've always looked up to. And, um, ended up getting it a year ago. So that's been incredible. And then I've got my own salon on F'S hair in Sydney where I'm the director, Yeah.

 Which is just, it's a huge two roles.

Yeah. And you, you're also a dad?

 And I'm also a dad.

yes. I know. it's wild. It's this thing And then

 of you actually have huge roles. Yeah. Like it's, the whole family's got a lot going on. you know,

 There's a lot, going on. Yeah. And it's like, you know, looking back at the last 12 months especially, it's been wild, incredible.

Like amazing. Challenging, exhausting,

 I think

 satisfying.

 When we caught up, when Kevin Murphy did their code launch and we got in trouble because you were supposed to talk to all the people there and we just stood in a corner. for the whole,

 I know

 and talked,

but I just remember you saying like you'd had this moment cause you guys had just been on holiday in Fiji.

Yes. And then you sat down at the table and you were just looking around at your children and your partner was over getting food and you just started crying and they

came back to the table, like,

 what is happening?

 It was the weirdest thing. It was like my body going exhale. Yeah. Yes. I'm not a crier at all. Like, you know, a little bit of a,

a tear when acute, you know, scene in a

movie, but I'm not a crier. I'm not either. So then I just bottle up, bottle up, bottle up, bottle up. And that was probably one to two years of bottling up and it came out the most random spot ever.

And it was all caused By a guy playing a ukulele,

singing.

 You are my

Sunshine,

You make me happy.

 And I was like

literally

burst out crying because I was just so happy to be with my kids on holidays.

Yeah.

 And I was grateful for everything. So it was just random.

 Yeah. But what a Beautiful moment, Cry. A good moment. It was. I love that.

 I've got things.

me and ukuleles not great.

 I'm

 I'm serious. They trigger me.

 I I have the same with

ukulele, mepi all the time, babe. Bagpipes, bagpipes for me are just like a visceral emotional

response. I don't know what it is, but whoa.

They bagpipes start tears just start

flowing. It's crazy

 But I felt so much better. And I'm still feeling lighter

since Fiji,

but I maybe I should fit in another cry this year at some point just so we

 can point time some point still. I'll send you some ukulele memes. Anytime you need, anytime you need a cry.

I'll just,

 just. Yeah,

 we'll just

send a ukulele. Yeah. Someone to your salon and just help you out.

 Oh my gosh. Get it out. Can you? Yeah. Can you imagine That

That would be amazing. You know, like a music telegram,

you know, when they come and see. There you go.

 But

 just,

 You're due for a cry. Get it out.

 You're welcome. This

 is your

 greatest welcome

 gift

 we can give. you. You. Yes. Thank you. So, much. and then Jen, get some bagpipes next week actually.

 I'm gonna,

 you cry?

 Um, just depends on the day.

 Also random.

 yeah, it depends on the day. I cried last night, there was a lot going on, Yeah. but like, it just, I'm not a big crier either. Like when things happen, like I will generally bottle it

up and then like cry in a

really like random point where I'm like,

ah,

this much is too much. Too much. But music, like, definitely when I'm driving

along, sometimes I'll be listening to a song. Yes. And it'll be

even a song

I can't even think.

Like,

 do.

 yeah.

And who knows? It depends. Yeah. The other day I was driving,

I had to drive to court to do some stuff And

stronger. by Christina Aguilera came on, I was like,

 like

 like having a full moment like was mentioned

 to be.

 And I just like had this full moment,

Christina,

 You

know it.

 And it was so loud that if there was a car accident, I wouldn't have heard it, like was so loud, but I was like feeling all the things like,

yeah, so

stupid

 shit. but music does that.

 Yeah.

 Like I often hype my, got like hype up songs in the morning, especially on Saturday after a whole week I'm like, I need it.

Come on, get that. Me

 too. Yeah.

 Yeah.

 I will do that in the morning with the playlist kids. Like, I'm like, oh, I need something hyper Or I'll

play worship music at night. So it's really like chill in my house. Like

it just

really changes so much of the kids and me.

and my mood.

And their mood and how that feels.

 Yeah. But then,

 you have such an interesting story. Like I just feel like people need to love you, like we've

loved you because we heard your story and then we were just like, and then what?

 It's so funny because I don't even think it's that interesting. It's

 so ing It really interesting.

Is. it?

 Yeah. Yeah.

 Well

I I guess it's, it's a story.

 Okay. Go.

 Well, where do we start?

 Which part do you want to hear

it?

I just

 like apprenticeship

 all of it. Just like, tell us your story.

 Well, it's been, it's been an interesting ride.

 I want personal in it too. Not just like,

 yeah.

 hair.

 Okay. Well,

okay. Where do I start? I mean, you know, I. grew up in Switzerland. Yeah. Um, very idyllic. In a little town by the lake overlooking the mountains It, it's like the

 Beginning of beauty.

and beast.

 Yodeling, Just a quiet

 village

 I was kind of flying,

 making cheese.

 I dunno why I went to the, Sound of music. I went to the. Sound of Music,

 Which is Austria. They were going to Switzerland at the very end when the Nazis have come. Yes to. free. Okay, excellent. Okay, so it's just clarifying. Been there many times. Yep. Same as, oh, Ikea. I'm like, no, that's Sweden.

Okay.

We're Lynch

Rolex, like very different. Okay.

Constant

geography. for The last 16 years in Australia, sorry,

 But these are all the things that are just

 gone my mind. And then you throw in my last name and it's like, oh God. So much to explain. Yes. yes. Anyway, but yeah. Grew up in Switzerland surrounded by a family of hairdressers.

Yes. A

 dynasty, if you will.

 It is a Swiss hairdressing dynasty. It is, yeah. very interesting. So it was like initially my grandfather who started a salon in a garage. Yeah. Then he had seven children

 out of four, five.

 Yeah. And Then out of the seven, four eventually went into hairdressing.

 Wow.

 And um, it was a bit of a family tradition that you do your apprenticeship, you work as a hairdresser, but then you go into the world.

Learn

a new language, come back and kind of take over or get involved involved. So like my dad did that. He worked for a Swiss hairdresser in Cape Town, and my mom was working at that salon. They fell in

love and came to Switzerland and had us

and la la blah.

Anyway, but from a very young age, there's this whole we've got a big family.

It was always like, Alex is gonna become a hairdresser. He's gonna be a hairdresser. He's perfect person. How many siblings

 we got?

 I've got two siblings. Yeah. But then obviously dad has his SI six. siblings with, yeah. So there's lots of like, Yes. And obviously that big family business with, you know, at that point, four salon salons very well known.

And They're

 pretty much just breeding you into hairdressing.

 Yeah, I was like the,

 Yeah. it grew

 tango into

 hairdressing. Yeah.

 Yeah.

 Okay.

 Which, and it's funny because naturally as a young kid you just go, I'm not gonna do hairdressing.

 Yeah.

 Like, I'm gonna be a

chef.

 Yeah.

 I don't even like cooking.

 I don't need you know what I mean?

To conform to what the path that you are laying in front of me. I wanna walk my own path.

 Which is so interesting because all the people are also like, oh, Alex is definitely gay. So I'm like, I'm not, I am not gay

and I am not a hairdresser, not gonna be a hairdresser. I'm gonna be a straight chef in the restaurant. Well, none of that actually happened.

 How

 is in fact, married to a man

 Anyway. But you know, the funny thing is, the moment everyone stopped and accepted that, even though they didn't quite believe me, that's why I'm like, oh, actually I'm gay and I've loved to be a hairdresser.

 It just

 but It it just needed it to be my idea. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?

Like, how I don't, didn't want people to make that decision for me. Yeah. And, you know, went through school, I hated school. I was not a school person. I didn't like people at school. I didn't like studying. I, I just wanted to be a grownup and go to work.

 Yeah.

 And that's what I did. Um, year, year 10, I'm like, that's it.

We're finishing up. I'm gonna go to my uncle sale and do my apprenticeship. And I did. I just wanted to go and work. I wanted to take the train to the city

and

you know,

 you didn't wanna work with your dad.

 And

 did,

but. internally the decision was made, Hey, let's get Alex to do his apprenticeship with dad's brother.

So my uncle, yeah, yeah. Which worked for me because dad salon was a little bit more out in a more a big country town.

 Oh yeah.

 Right. Where my uncle's Salon was in the city.

 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Different vibe.

 Yeah. You know, a Swiss city. It's not. Anyway, so I was like, no, I'll go to the city. And I did my apprenticeship, which, you know, went really well.

But um, you know, still there was so many elements to it because you are with the uncle, but then dad is like shareholder and you come home and you talk. So there was lots of dynamics around that. Um, one of the hardest thing was like

going to TAFE and stuff like

that, because it was a bit like, uh, he's a Fox, it's Alex Fox, he's one of the Fuchs and you know what I mean?

Like lots of people maybe used to work at Fuchs or were engaged with Fuchs or, you know what I mean? So it was always that label on.

And I was always. The sun off. The sun off the sun off. Which came with such great opportunities and stuff. But I,

 but

it also means it's hard to find your own identity in

 so hard,

 and when the opportunities come, it's like, are you giving me this opportunity or

Yeah. Is it just because of my name?

 And, and that's the thing, And it was very much like you just had, to, I had to work so hard to prove Yeah. that what I'm doing is because,

 Because you deserve it.

 Yes. And You know, and I had that from age of 16 onwards. It was just on, and the expectations, you know what I mean? Like that I could see people going, like, oh,

look at the haircut, Alex deed, or look at that color, Alex de like, you gone.

So you know that was, that pressure was It's

 almost like

you

weren't human anymore.

You were just a foxs,

 You were a foxs and everything, because what happens to you is just because you're a fox. Mm. So that was just like, okay. Got it. But it's, it's also funny, like looking back at it as, you

know, my late thirties,

um, I'm looking back at it, a lot of that pressure actually. put on myself.

 Yeah. So

 What, So I dunno how it's perceived pressure, right? Yes. Correct. Yeah.

 Know, and I, I'm looking back at it, I'm like, was there actually that much pressure? But it's okay because it got me to where I'm, well, did people really even

 think that? that's a big point for a lot of people? Like that was just

was like, it's the. Perceived pressure. yeah. It's The pressure you put

on yourself. Like how much right now are we

all holding? Because we're like putting the pressure

of

those things on ourselves. Yeah. No one else is doing it. We're doing it.

 Yeah. Yeah.

 It's the same thing when it comes to control.

We're controlling It's a control thing. It's a control thing. We're like perceiving, oh, but this is my pressure. It's

 like

 a self self

 sabotage.

 Yeah. So much. It is.

 I'm very good at that.

 Same,

 could have done better, Alex. You know that the voice comes in, in the evening saying, oh, that conversation you had this afternoon

wasn't your

best, wasn't it Alex?

I'm like, what? mate? listen.

 Yep.

 Why are you questioning it now? I said it, it's done.

 I'm like, oh. they're totally thinking that you're a bit of a dick.

And they definitely like that other person better

than you. I know,

 but even if they. think that we can't do anything about

 it, You can't do,

 I know it's

 absolutely possible that they think I'm a dick

 and

 that's

 okay.

 I know know,

not everyone has to like us.

 Yeah. But the three of us are saying this, but also going

 color. like

not

everyone has to like us. I like us,

 us, but please like us, don't leave a bad review.

 I'm trying my best here right now. Yeah. Under the reviews, I'm,

I'm

why are we always scared of a bad review?

 I don't know. I'm

 terrified. I'm, I'm

letting go of that.

I'm working. on

 that at the moment. I used to be way worse. Yeah. Do you remember back in the day how bad I was with it? Oh yeah. We turned off. reviews. Now I'm kind of like,

it's just hair.

 because, you can always respond

too.

 Yeah. It's just hair. I get

it. Yeah. But's just hair. So, and sometimes we're not gonna be perfect at our job.

 Yeah,

 That's okay.

 But you do get better in at age taking emotions out of it. For sure. So I'm like, okay, Alex, you're being emotional. This is emotions fueling your behavior. So take the emotion out of it and look at it again.

 Mm-hmm.

 and

stop. way. And then you forget about it.

 Yeah. And then you're like, oh, I forgot about that Then.

 Well, you know, it's good night's sleep.

 Yeah.

 Yes. God, it's good.

 Yeah.

 You think about it so differently in the morning. Yeah.

 You're like, oh, why was I

 such

 a

 probably a big deal

 Guess

get over it.

 I,

it doesn't matter. know that's that's a nice thing about aging, isn't it?

 Yeah. Sleep.

 What you see us at like

seven

 sleep. Oh my gosh. You're not at the right part

of aging yet.

Calm down. I'm

 What? are we sleeping Are We not sleeping?

 No, we don't. we don't

sleep. I sleep. You sleep? She doesn't

 like how many hours?

 Oh no. I mean,

I sleep okay, but like menopause man. Ah,

Oh,

 not there yet.

 It's all of a sudden just like, I'm Jen Z sleep.

I'm Jen's

 young friend.

 Yeah. It's just, I don't,

any of that is fair. Like why, why do all the females have to go through that?

And None of us. know

 the shit that we've gotta go through is wild.

 It's, I'm, I'm

 periods into pregnancy, into birth, into pre menopause. Into menopause.

Like my golly, gosh,

 just a second episode. I've got so many thoughts. I'm

pretty sure my

 husband's

 going through menopause as well, but that's okay.

 They're going through a lot though.

 okay. Off, off track.

We,

could, I feel

like this, how

 did we get from my child to menopause?

 Someone

 I feel like

this needs to be like a nine hour. episode. I know

 exactly.

 No

one ever left here and there're still recording three days later. Okay.

 Anyway,

 so You did your apprenticeship.

 Yes. Did my apprenticeship. All, you know, good. Good enough. It was good enough. Yeah. You know, it wasn't, my score at the end wasn't the most amazing and that was okay with me.

I'm like, I just, I just need to go and work. Yeah. 'cause you know, it was

the thing, it was like one thing is a skillset, but I knew what I had was connecting with people.

Yeah,

 Yeah. yeah.

 And the skillset I know will come with that. Yeah. You know, so I, I finished my apprenticeship and then this great thing

happened, which is so not great. But you, I had

to go to the army.

 Yes.

 Oh

 God.

This

is the great, we're gonna keep poll story. For anyone

that's listening.

tune

In this, honestly, I think

as soon as

you said,

 said,

 I

was like, hold on, I'm obsessed with your story, but I, there's a bee in it. What is it? That's that

 it, so did you didn't go overseas before that?

 No.

 Okay. So you,

 had to I made a decision to go overseas once I completed the, yeah.

 okay.

So go first.

Okay.

So why did you have to go to the Army?

 Okay, so in Switzerland is compulsory for all men and men only to do, um, national service For

 how long?

 Okay. So the initial, the, the first time you go is for six months. Yeah. So six months you live there, and then after six months you finished your initial training.

And then you go once a year for about a month until you make up your amount of

Days or months required.

So usually you go

 and do you have to do this by a certain age?

 Yes. Well, you have to do it until it's completed, Yeah. but usually if you go with like once a month, sorry, once a year for a month, you have it done

by like 35.

 And that's a, like, it's a long time You guys tune in there like a whole month every year.

 Yeah.

 Is taken on this. And it's until you're like 35 and you have to do a full, like, that's, if anyone that's listening, that's a long time of your life taken out to do something that you don't want to do.

 Yes, absolutely.

And it was a very, for me personally, looking back at, it, it was very confronting. So I was like, I was like, what was

I 16?

I was,

I

think I was 18.

 He was a famous gay hairdressers. Oh

 God.

I

thought

I wasn't even gay then. Oh. Like I wasn't out,

 weren't

 you? I was not out.

 Did

 you? know you were, I, I, I didn't come out till I think 19 or it

took me a long time.

 Yeah. Okay.

 Yeah, because it was this weird thing of you, you know, Switzerland is a very open country, Yeah. but it's, it's still very Catholic generally. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a, a strange thing because there was never many gay role models I could relate to. Like the only gays I could always see in the media were very flamboyant

over the top Yeah. Andre, like, I'm not like that.

Which we love, but I couldn't identify Yes. With that. Yes. So I was like, well, I can't, I'm not that so I can't be gay. Right. Yeah. So anyway, different story, but when I,

during

my apprenticeship and going in, I think I came out just before Army, but I was entering Army not as a gay man. Yeah, right. 'cause it wouldn't have gone down Well,

 okay.

 Yeah.

 Yeah.

 So you, I,

you know, having a bit of a childhood of a little bit of touch of bullying, I didn't need that during the Army. either.

 Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

 And you know, it's not that I went in all butch and stuff, but I just kept it quiet. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that didn't have to talk about it. But yeah. So Army was coming up.

I had to go to the assessment and all of that, and a lot of the young boys do get out of it, but it's a big effort to get out of it. So you kind of have to pretend. No. Okay. Either you have seriously physical, yeah. yeah. Disabilities or mental restrict that you can't deal with it, or you are.

You know, quite healthy and then you pretend you are not trusted with a machine gun.

You know what I mean? Oh.

And

I could not do that. The pretending thing.

 Yeah.

 Because I'm like, well, that's gonna be somewhere on a file that whatever reason I can't handle things A machine. gun. I just,

I, I, I,

didn't wanna lie to that degree.

 Yeah, that's a big lie.

 Uh, Yeah. I couldn't, I was like, you know what, Alex, and, and it's funny because even back then I was like, this is gonna be a rough patch. You're gonna get through this and I'm sure you're gonna get something out of it.

 Resilience, right?

 Yeah.

 Yeah.

 And

I had so many moments in the last years.

 Again, another really good point there. This is a rough patch. You're gonna get through it, Yeah. and you're gonna come out with something with it, Yeah.

whatever that looks like.

a people. And Sometimes

you have to

 do. things you don't wanna do.

 Yeah,

 you do.

And

that's the law. Yeah. The law tells you you have to do that, Mm-hmm. so you have to do that. Mm-hmm. So let's just, that taught me. Something really important at a young age was

about

resilience.

It was about sometimes you just have to do something you don't want to do.

Mm-hmm. Um, the best you can do is get some kind of silver lining or learnings out of it. Out of it.

Yeah.

And I'm still doing that today. Big rough patches in the last five years personally and, you know, work and stuff like that. And I think the resilience I have is because of that experience. Yeah. I went to, at a long, young age and off I went.

So you are, you're there for six months. You are allowed to go home for one night a week. Oh Wow. Sorry, sorry. One night a week.

 Okay.

 One night a week you're allowed to go home. The other six nights you are there. Yep. Um, my time was just through winter, so it was very cold. It was very wet. It was very dark.

Um, you are literally living in a bunker. Like, so there's the, the where I was allocated was this school, they had a bunker underneath because back in the day, in Switzerland you had to build bunkers

in case of a nuclear

attack. And so there was lots of, there's lots of bunkers, in Switzerland. Anyway, so we, we lived underground in a bunker and you know, we are talking.

20

men in one room, bunk beds. Yeah. It is horrendous. The smells was like the, the dirt. smell.

It

was just, you know. And you ever run again, oh, you would've loved that. I'm like, it was disgusting.

 Yeah. You would've loved as if the,

 the, it was just disgusting.

And

the, the, the biggest issue I always had is like, they make you do this, but they don't even run it properly.

Like, you know what I mean? I was like, that's not leadership. Yeah. What are you making us do? Is just bullying. That's not even, yeah. That's

not preparing us for war. Yeah. Like, what are we doing? Yeah. So I was already like, okay, this

is great. Let's just stick with it.

And I went there every day and I did it and you know, like backpacks and machine guns and they drop you up in the mountains and they pick you up two days later and you have to find your own accommodation.

So you knock on some farmer's store and you ask if you can sleep in the barn. And they're like, yep, no worries. Sleep in the bar because they're used to it. And then here I was sleeping on hay with hay fever and like swollen and crying and wet. And it was like, it was. Tough.

 It's not even preparing you for war, it's preparing you for war in 1940.

That's what I mean. Like

 that's not, what it was so,

 yeah.

 You know what I mean? And the funny thing is like when you talk like my dad, he's like, well, we all have to go through it. You know? That's what you do

 doesn't make it

right.

 It doesn't get right.

And the core issue I always had was that a country forces me to do something I don't wanna do.

 Yeah. Yeah.

 And I have no option.

 Yeah.

 You know what I mean?

 It's the same thing.

 Not

 the

same thing at all. But no, I just, what came into my, what came into my head is when people

say with old school hairdressing, people say, well, I went through it. it's it's like, Doesn't mean it was right.

 Yeah. It

 wasn't

 exactly. It doesn't mean it was right.

It doesn't mean we should subject anybody else to it.

 Yeah, exactly. Right.

 It's the same with parenting and all of that. Yeah. But you know what? Sometimes let the new generation work out a different approach. Yes. It's okay.

 Yeah. Break the chains.

 You know, how, I think it was like five years ago, Switzerland had a national vote if they going to keep aul compulsory or not.

 They kept it.

 they kept it. Oh, like over, like, it was, the, it was crazy

 because every, every, oh yeah. Everyone was like, well, we did it. Yeah. So they have to do it.

 But then a lot of boys enjoy it too, because they take it easy. They, like hangouts with their maids. It feels a bit like a holiday to them. But, uh, for me it's just like, you know, you have these like

massive backpack, super heavy. You've got like a

machine gun hanging on you like it, it is

 crazy. A machine gun. Like,

 I can shoot a machine gun. Oh. Well, I don't think I could anymore, but I was trained to shoot one.

 Okay. So

I

can't even wrap.

But like, I'm trying to, you like trying to

 keep this tight.

 You, know, when

the part of my, life, you know, when you're painting the full picture in your head, like, I'm in Bunker or I'm in like, machine gun.

Yeah. Like, and you, it literally

feels like. What book did I read?

 I've

got a few random

 photos. left. Oh. It feels like that one where they get, um, it feels like the guitar series when she gets put into the.

like,

that'ss where my head's going. Yeah. There's all these other people and they just get tossed out and then they've got machine guns.

They gotta ask the farmers and, okay. So from there you did your six months?

 Yeah, I, no, I actually, I think I left a month early. Okay. Or Three weeks earlier I finally got out. I was just like, because I was struggling. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I was struggling to a, a a degree where,

you

know, on the outside I wasn't, but on the inside I was.

Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. And I ended up having

these, um, uh, what do you call them in English?

Like,

um, they were like abscess.

 Oh yeah,

yeah.

 Yes. And my first abscess at my arm from,

What's that? And you go on the

ground and you, Yeah.

 Army crawling.

 Crawling. Really? So there was an infection. Anyway,

you

can only go to Army Hospital. They have no idea what that is. They cut it out, I had this big hole. I had to, anyway, whatever. Went through that. And then towards the end of the army, I had another one. And I remember I was put into a proper hospital and I looked at the doctor and I I'm like, I did the surgery. I'm like, you need to get me out. of this. Yeah. Like, I'm done. I'm finished.

Yeah. So I finished like three weeks early and it was very much like,

oh, Alex didn't last

 three weeks.

 It was like something minor. But I was okay with me because I know what I did. I know what I went through. And um, And you

 know

that if it came down to it, you could shoot a machine. gun.

 Yeah. But literally while I was in,

 if we need it, we're going into Alex's bunk,

 I would be useless.

I

would be useless. And The funny thing is also when you finish the six months, you take everything home. Yeah. So even your

 machine gun,

 even your machine gun, gas masks, gas masks um, everything, you take it all home Yeah.

because

in case of, an emergency, they don't give you the bullets.

though, so that's good. Okay.

Okay. But you take everything home in case of war, like all these men are ready to go.

Yeah. So you take it all home. And the only thing I liked was the army knife. And in, when you actually go to the Army, you actually get a, a proper one. Like the rule one. Yeah,

 yeah.

 Anyway,

still got that

 actual Swiss

 Army knife. got trouble for taking.

it back to Australia

Anyway, but while I was in the Army, I was literally

applying for jobs overseas.

I'm like, okay, I wanna go to an English speaking country.

I wanna go to a global city. I need to go, I need to

 get

outta the bunker and get into the world,

 get into the world,

 get away from this country that makes me go to war.

 And I love Switzerland, but by that point it was a bit of a complex relationship 'cause I was a bit like,

I,

I,

 you

 you know, my so proud of my family business and what they've done and being part of it and branching out into Australia, giving me this opportunity.

But,

By that point I just needed to go Mm. Yeah. and just work out, work on myself, Mm. figure out who I are,

am and

what I do. And then we were working in Switzerland with a big product company.

We

were the biggest client with five salons and over a hundred staff. And they, I told them, Hey guys, if you have anything overseas, I would love to go.

And by that point I was very involved with color. So my dad.

was

The color educator for the region. Yeah. And very successful always assisted him on Sundays, help learned, learned, help, assisted all of that? So I had a good knowledge of the color system and the guys were like, actually Australia just started with the color.

 Yeah.

 You could go down there and help out with education. And I took it. So I was 21, packed one suitcase was at the airport, said bye to my family. Mom crying, looked at me. She knew

I would never come back. Yeah. In

that very moment. Which now as a parent, horrifying.

But

they, they all knew, you go, you'll be fine.

And I did. I came and got myself a little apartment, went to work, and off we went.

 But see, at that time you were only doing

education. Hey, you weren't, yes. Yeah. You weren't working in salon.

 No. And then that brand eventually opened up the salon. So I worked part-time in salon, part-time education.

 Yeah.

 And interestingly enough, that salon, I ended up purchasing.

 Oh. I

 turned, So that was

 the first. Okay.

Also,

in all of this, you still had to go back

for

your month.

 Yeah. Well that was interesting, wasn't it? Because one, year later that letter came saying,

 it's time for

 to yeah, here's, your month, you need to come back. And I'm like, I am not going back. I will not

go back.

Like,

what are you gonna do?

 Yeah.

 And they're like,

well, you need, we need reasons and applications and forms. And I'm like, but thank God, by then I was a tax resident of Australia. We were already preparing my permanent residency application. So I had stuff.

 Yeah, yeah.

 And then, um, they're like, okay, well that's okay, but you have to pay compensation

for not coming

anyway.

Negotiating back was like $3,000 Had to pay you

 like tank

 my, They're like, okay, my

 money,

 we are excluding you. But if you ever move back to Switzerland permanently, you will have to make

up for all of it.

 You are like, I'm never coming back. Then send,

I Love Switzerland. Send this letter to my mom.

 mom.

 I reckon.

 Yes.

And then dad had to return. All my stuff and he called me and he was like, I'm not happy. I'm like, well, he was like, this one missing item.

I'm like,

 oh, the the Swiss Army knife.

 And I'm like, oh my,

the Swiss Army knife. He goes, yeah,

where is it? I'm getting fined. I'm like, oh, it's, it's, it's in my kitchen. at home

here in Australia. I was like, listen, You're all, I,

 that's the one thing I like

 for six months and multiple infections and scars internally and externally I'm keeping that eye. I'm keeping my

 yeah, I'm taking my knife, and I'm keeping it.

 Yes, it's mine. And that's how I ended up coming to Australia. Wild.

 It's wild. And then how did you meet Nathan?

 I met Nathan

I'm doing

Personal. I'm going personal. Okay.

Um, I met Nathan three months after

moving here.

 Did

you?

 Yeah,

October

long weekend,

which was a few weeks. A couple of

A week ago. Yeah. 16 years ago. Aw. So it was our anniversary a few day Anyway. Yeah. Met him three months later and I just knew it was the weirdest thing. I was like. There's there, there, he is. There he's

 there. He's,

 he is.

 yes,

I know. it was nice and it was,

you know, it was a bit, you know, it's a little bit of an age gap, so it took us a while to be, actually be, become an official couple.

But,

um,

yeah, three months later I met him and it was, it was,

Yeah, it's been looking back at that again, look, how am I in a 16 year relationship? But it was good. It was really good. You know, I was working for a product company, working at a salon. Salon. He had his own salon also working for a product company, and eventually started working with Kevin Murphy, and we were both just busy and career driven and doing our thing.

 Yeah.

 Um,

but,

you know,

being together.

 Do you

feel like, because obviously you're both,

in the industry, do you feel like you've both,

I mean, you're both hugely successful on your own, right? Mm-hmm.

Do you feel like at any point, there were times where it's like, okay, you go now, I'll wait. Yeah. Or I'll go now you wait. Or do you think you were both able to grow?

 I mean, before, before kids, we were just both. Okay. Going for it.

 How old are the kids?

 seven

They just turned seven in

August.

 Twins.

 Twins, girls. Twin girls. Yeah. Yeah.

 Before, before

 the girls,

 yes. Yeah.

But

there were two when they came to us.

so five years we've had them.

 Yeah.

 But but before the girls, we were very much like, go, go, go. And it was kind of a bit like, you're doing that, I wanna do that. Like, it was kind of a bit like, not a, I wouldn't say competitive, but

it made you,

 for anyone that's listening that doesn't obviously know

you

and Nathan, what does Nathan do? So people, are,

 so Nathan today is Global Director of Education and communications for Kevin Murphy Global.

Yes. Yeah. So he's, he's very much, um, working across product development, marketing, education. Lala, He's got a big role across many different departments. Yeah.

 Yeah.

 So he started as an

educator and ended up with Kevin Murphy Global. Um,

Yeah, so we were both just working in our careers. I was that product brand and that salon, he had his own salon working for. another product brand anyway, so it was just both of us going for it, you know, both of us traveling overseas for work and doing our education.

So

 how long have you had the salon for?

 I had my salon now for six years.

 Okay, so after, yeah. Okay, cool. So

 yeah, so I was working for that brand and that salon for a long salon. and

 talking

 I've been talking 12

 12

years.

 Yeah.

Okay.

 10. Anyway.

Um, so yes, so in answering your question, it was, it was back then it was very much both just go, go, go.

 But when the girls came,

 yeah. So there's definitely a bit of

pull

and push.

 Yeah.

 Like over the last 12 months, Nathan was very much like, you go, it's

 your turn.

 Um, I'm the backup. Yeah. You know, like this is your time, you go and do that. He works from home, has a little bit more flexibility with picking up kids from school.

I usually do drop offs and lunchboxes in the morning and he does afternoon and evening allow me to work late or do whatever I do. Yeah. And he still travels for work. He's got, you a handful of big trips a year and that's where I need to stop everything. Yeah. So I'm adjusting my work schedule so I can

just look after the kids,

but yeah.

 And then your

sister's amazing with the kids as

well, right?

 Yeah, yeah. My sister and Nathan's sister.

 Yeah.

 Then my sister worked also with dad and I at the salon, but then moved

to New Zealand, which we're so happy

for her work,

running her own salon over there.

Yeah. Um, but yes, the, the village around us is incredible and we need it.

 Mm.

 Like in this week is perfect example. I'm here for four days, going to Brisbane to do, um, after this doing train. Me and Nathan had to go to Melbourne for one night to do an event with Kevin and we're like, yeah, my parents on Fraser Island, Nathan's sisters on. night shift. And we're like, my sister's in New Zealand now.

So we're like, dammit, what do we do?

 So

 what did you do? So a friend is popping in,

like

helping out and we'll have them overnight tomorrow night. So it is a juggle.

 Mm.

Yeah. That's huge.

 And then the parent guilt. Mm.

 Yeah.

 cause you haven't spent much time with them

So I took them to a bow toast last week

for four

days.

Are You talking where? By boat? A boathouse,

a a boat only access boat shed on the Hawkesbury River.

Oh. it's like we just need to hang out the four of us.

Yes.

 Yeah.

 And be present.

 But

that's

the thing. And we were talking about that before. That's the thing. It's not

when you're busy and

you're working

like this,

you are building them this big life and they get every, like my children don't go out without, which I'm sure your kids are as well. Mm-hmm. Like you can give them things and do things and stuff like that. And so you've gotta actually, it's not everyday presence. It's carving out the time where you give them these beautiful memories where they have you holy and solely because you're able to do those things because

you're

building a life and life is expensive.

Oh yeah. Like You can't generally have people that just stay at home and raise the kids anymore.

 It's so true. And you know, having kids, as you know,

um,

you go through a period where when they're young, where you have to just remove

your

dreams and your visions and all that. 100% and just be present.

Yeah.

 And

I went through years of that. and we are talking

serious

stuff, serious

court issues, serious legal battles.

To a degree where there was a risk

of Nathan and I losing our kids.

 Oh.

 Um, yeah.

And that was so challenging going through through that. is This is where we

 Play

the ukulele.

 that's

 another

 That's teary. I'm gonna get the ukulele playing.

like, let's take this to a whole moment.

 not giving that anymore tears. damn.

That's not a big tell. Yes.

 that's

had

 Um, but

 multiple, like serious stuff. like, and then, you know, still being there for your team, still running a business. Um, that was just after the big COVID lockdown.

How old were the

 girls at this point?

 They were

 three.

 three.

 Yeah. Yeah. So you'd been dad for 12

months?

 Yeah, I

was Dad, no, I was up at three and a half. Yeah. 12, 18 months, something

 like that. Yeah. Wow.

 Yeah. Yeah.

And

you know, that's the first time in their life,

they had a family.

 Yeah.

 They felt safe, they felt

loved. Yeah. That consist.

 Yeah. And you also, you know, you go through that period because everything was set in stone. They had like final orders. They, like, they were, we were their permanent placement.

 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 We just told them for the last one and a half years that we are your forever family.

 Yeah. That We are not going anywhere. But nothing is gonna change. Yeah. You are safe.

 And suddenly that was on the cards

so

we were like, we lawyered up. Like we just went for it. We, we were like someone has to fight for these kids.

 Like come on.

 Yeah.

 Do what's best

for the kids. For the

kids.

 And

that was that was tough. That was a whole, I think it was one

and a half years of just fighting and going through that,

but still

rocking up at the salon every day.

Yeah. Making everyone feel good Yeah. and look good.

 Yep.

 And

then everyone asking, how are the kids,

Yeah.

How are the kids? How are the kids? Yep. And there was a point where I'm like,

I think they're gonna,

they're gonna,

they're gonna go. So then

I went

into damage control and

decided to tell every

single client what's going on.

Mm. Because

I

was like, if I tell them now, then I don't have to tell them. don't have, to tell

 them

 in the thick event

 when

it happens. Mm. Yeah.

 But then you look back now I was a bit same and

I way over shared.

 and then you're like, oh, I over she two.

But

 I would never do

 that again.

The

reason why we're so good at our jobs is a connection, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And

this is giving your clients a connection. Like it's giving them story and it's sharing, but then you look back and you're like, whoa, I went too far.

 I made that all about myself.

 Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

 And you know, the salon team was very supportive.

 Yeah,

 very supportive. The clients were two. Um, and it was funny because then we then after a year we know it's gonna be okay.

and Then a year later it was finally like,

 yeah, yeah.

 You know, we had full parental control response and that call came again 22nd of December, Oh, later. Oh my

 good luck. saying It was fine.

 No,

we knew it's gonna be fine, but that court ruling came through. Yeah.

With

the guardianship that day, and I remember everyone crying around me being so happy and I couldn't because I'm like, well, this is what needs to happen and we need to move on now. Like I am

putting

that one behind. Maybe someone should have brought

 a eulan.

 yeah, I I feel like overshared completely oversharing, but

I

was protecting myself. I don't know what I was. doing.

 I think it is, it's that protection because it's like

in, if that had happened, can you

imagine having to relay that story

again and again and again

 and again and again?

If, if

that, was what mean. But it

also

something that you're going through. I know, right? So

you're like, I am in the midst

of the

worst, like potentially my kids being taken. It's the

worst time of my entire life. Yeah. Sometimes. And especially with clients that we're really close to, but also, how are you going?

Sometimes it's really hard to be like, oh, life is like, life's good. What's happening with you? Like, and when your clients become like your friends. you're like, I can't imagine not sharing this with them. Absolutely. It

 feels disingenuine to

 have not shared. Yeah,

 it. does. And some of them have been looking after for 10 years. so Of course they need to know.

Yes.

 yes.

 But then that everything became about that.

 Yes. Yeah.

 And

so that was bloody

Rough patch.

 Yeah.

And

then you're like talking about it every day and then it's all you're consuming. Yeah. Absolutely. Court constantly. Yeah. And just the thoughts and lawyers and

 money,

 fuck

 this and trying to so

 much

 manage the salon at the same time.

 Yeah,

 yeah. You know, so, and, and then,

yeah.

And

it's, it's funny because I had a team, which were incredible, getting me

through this, you know, like

helping me getting through this. Yeah. By

making

the salon run. But I was in and out

a lot.

 Yeah.

 And

after

that,

in

hindsight, yeah, I can see that's when I lost,

I lost a big control over the salon.

Mm-hmm. You know, I was not the man in charge anymore or the person in charge

didn't like that. I said, man,

I was not the person in charge anymore.

And

 have you,

 things

happened.

 Have you given yourself grace

for that though? Because I think so often, like I look back and I can relate to all of this.

 Mm.

 But I've had to give myself grace because

right then it wasn't my, my purpose and my pa, my purpose for life wasn't.

let's keep building this salon.

It

had to be focused on my children. And you are the same way. So you go, there is no possible way that I could have run that salon exactly. To how I needed it to be,

and

also put my focus in my family. So you put your time and your energy and your focus exactly. Where it had to go

 100%.

But

it's also, you know, you do then sometimes go, well, you know, my personal issues are not really my staff's problems, so they, you, you know what I mean? Like, I'm a bit like,

you know,

did I hold them back in their growth and development. obviously, that's where the self Sabo

comes

in. again. But you know, looking back, you know, at like. What happened a year ago when I, had, there was a big shift within my staff.

I think a lot of that came through All

 of that.

 Yeah. Of those years, you know? Yeah. Because obviously when I step away naturally within the team, people want to naturally step up as leaders Yeah. control. Yeah. And get things to run it their way. Yeah. And you are so. Worried about potentially losing staff that you let them get away with it.

Yeah. You just, I just ended up focusing on pleasing everyone, making sure that everyone is happy and gets exactly out of this what they want. That I forgot to lead.

 Fuck. Yeah.

I just, I'm like, I just it's like, I'm like, are we this? Do we go through the last yeah. 18 months Really hard. exactly the same?

No.

because literally everything you're

saying is everything. Yeah.

That I experienced

within the last 18 months. Yeah. There

 we go. And

it's,

you just,

again,

the

resilience you get from it is incredible.

 Yeah.

 But it's still so tough.

 And as you say, and your question questions are so long, like it's finally so everything I finally have gone,

 it

 was all meant to happen. as It was meant to happen.

And I understand that's what you were

 just saying.

 Yeah.

 It's like, okay, now we're on the other side.

 So interesting because at the end of last year, just when I took this role with Kevin Murphy, my dream role, I was

my

first, I took the role. Three days later I went to Brisbane to attend train Me, which is what we are doing this week.

 Week, which is why're here this week.

Yeah.

 And I was just more there as a attendee slash being introduced as my new role that

week on this last day in an email

from the fourth person

that

week resigning, And that I'm, I'm talking four people leaving, I mean, you know, whatever, two or three of them

actually left hairdressing,

So whatever. But it's still, it's a fourth per person.

leaving. But

 again,

Steve, like that you

don't give over three

 months.

 you don't give yourself grace. Right.

 we

 can like, and you

feel like, you feel guilty for it. 'cause you're like, but these people

moved away. same

thing with me. Right. But you still

place all the guilt and all the blame solely on your, it was all because of me. It was, I'm the worst. And Yeah. you know, you don't think about the people that, the fact that they're just, their lives are changing and moving and growing and they wanna move away. and take it personal. Absolutely. Did I, can I take fault for some of it? Absolutely. But we don't take fault for some of it. We take the blame and the fault for all of it. we're the worst.

Everyone was saying it Like we're the

 terrible terrible. It's so true. But listen to me right now, I had to

clarify that they were leaving the industry

because it makes me feel better.

 Yes.

 Rather than just leaving me.

 Yeah,

 you still do. I

 still, do. I do that all the time. I do it all the time. You do.

 They moved away.

 They moved away.

Because

you don't wanna be perceived as someone, especially in our type

of industry. Right. I'm a business coach. It's what Salon Rising is, and

you don't wanna be

perceived as someone that.

Uh,

because there's other people out there that

staff are leaving left, right, and

center. And it is because of how they lead their team.

Right. So you don't wanna be perceived as if like you're like, hold on,

I

don't wanna be

disingenuine. And people think that behind the scenes,

I'm not who I say I

am on the scenes.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I

think that is the difference. true.

 You are spot on.

 So I don't think you need, I think it's not. You are not an saying it,

 it's not an ego,

 thing. I don't think it's an ego thing.

Yeah. It's a, I don't want people thinking that I

am

disingenuine

behind the scenes and actually all these people are leaving because I'm actually an asshole and I, I

whip my stuff and whatever that looks like.

Yeah. So you have to justify it. And I say that, I'm like, I'm

still friends with the people

that have left.

I know Because you want

to,

people

still to

know that you lead that salon with heart and people do move on. And I think it's okay, this is a big thing. and it's okay. Like everyone works at different places, right?

Mm-hmm. Everyone has different jobs. No one goes,

oh, that business owner is a failure because all of

their staff left.

But

in the beauty and hair industry, it's such a thing. Yeah. Or they mustn't be good. 'cause all their, they're, they've had a big turnover. Did you hear? It's like, yeah,

Yeah. Everyone's gonna have a turnover. Like, and the clients, the difference is, is no one walks into macers and goes, yeah, well this is not the same person that served me last time.

Yeah. Or a coffee shop and goes, well this is not the same person. But people walk into salon's and go, oh, everyone seems new. It's like, yeah, because people move on. Yeah. It's life.

 Yeah. It is life. It is life.

 But then you are the one that's holding like, well, maybe I'm a failure because people are leaving me.

 Yep.

 I think that was one of the things I loved

most about you when

we met over goulash is like, we were just sitting there and we obviously went

through your journey with the Swiss Army and all that sort of thing,

but

then it was just like walking around Budapest and being

well, I think everything's

okay, but I don't really know. Mm.

Like,

is it, am I doing

okay? Like

at that time you had one person was um,

 you'd just gone through some stuff

 just going Yeah.

 just resigned two days before I left.

 Yes. Like

 I just a week please.

 And then like

we were talking

 about, it's like when you first meet people and it's all like that surface stuff and it's like, oh yeah, I own a salon, blah, blah, blah. And that was that Tony Budapest member when I was like, there was a salon owner that I was like,

she's like, yeah, everything's great. Yeah, we love it. Yep. We're doing this and we're doing that. And I was so I was like, really? 'cause I feel kinda shit. She's like, thank God. same. Yeah. And it was the same thing, like,

 whereas you didn't do that, you

 were just

 like, I don't know.

Is it all right?

 You know what? And I got to that point a little while ago where I'm like, you know what? I

 just

 be authentic. Just say how it is. Yeah. like, you know what I mean? And It's the same with like, you know,

people

can be so bitchy. And I'm like, I'm, You say, I'm like, you know what, someone says something, bad about someone.

I'm like, actually,

let's

 not interested.

 Yeah.

You don't actually know their, side. like, it's just not, what are we doing?

 Yes.

 We

need to, especially with the way the world's going right now. Yeah. We need to look after each other. Yeah. Rather than putting each other down. Yeah. Like it's just, and if, if you don't dunno, don't know.

It's fine. Yeah. Like you know. Yeah.

 you don't like someone No. Thank you. I just don't wanna like, I just, they're not my people. Yeah. And That's okay. Yeah.

 And

 That's okay. And it's okay. Don't have to be liked.

 Yeah.

 So yeah, and that was, you know, then that was the final straw exactly a year ago. And I remember I went,

I

saw that email and my heart

just sank because it was like October,

two months

before Christmas,

another

senior gone.

I was moving overseas, gone.

And I was

like, how I'm gonna get through Christmas? What am I gonna do? And Anyway, I took a breath, went to the bathroom, and I look, and I can't wait to go back

into the bathroom tomorrow.

And I looked in that mirror and for some reason this energy came over me. And I don't know what it was, but it was very much like, this is it Alex, this is your turning point.

This is gonna change you

and

you wait till you're back here and here in a year's time and see what

happened in the last 12 months.

And I just knew it. Even like, you know, dad was freaking out and I'm like, dad, I know it's really hard, but I can tell you, I know, I can feel it. Yeah. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be the best, we're gonna have the best salon in a year's time because we shedding and um, we can.

Reevaluate and, uh, and take a bit of a different direction without having the past, constantly trying to keep it what it was.

And I made that my mission Mm. and I took on an extra job too, like, you know what I mean? Like,

Yeah. but I knew that it's all gonna work hand in hand and we're gonna be okay. It's just gonna be a lot of work.

 Mm. And do you like sometimes I think there's that that

little niggle that sits underneath where

you're like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't pursue this, but that is your dream job. Like you said, that's the only job that was hard you've ever applied for.

 And it was very much like, it was very much like,

you shouldn't

be doing this job right now. You need to focus

on your business, you know.

And

I'm like,

I can do it all. I promise you

I can. I, I know that

it's like an internal dialogue.

Um,

but

it's like, I'm like, no. And you know what, sometimes it just ha I, I'm a bit funny with the universe. Like, I'm like, this is happening to me for a reason. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I just go with. It because why fighting? Like, just roll with it. This is so out of my control. If this is not happening for a reason, why is it happening?

 Yeah.

 So,

 and like we said doing,

you

look back and you're like, ah,

yeah,

so clever. I Get it now.

 I mean by that point the resilience backpack was full Yeah. like, you know, between like the family and the army and the kids and the lawsuit and the star leaving.

I'm like,

 yeah,

 you can throw anything at me now I'm okay. for it. Don't

 say that. Don't say that.

 No. Touch wood.

There some water here.

 No. But

 No, but at the end of the day, come on. Like yeah, you're going through something. You went through a lot. You going through a lot. Like

this

is, you know what, it's

 just life.

 That's just life, isn't it?

 Yeah. That's how we only life, it's backpack.

 And again, I, but you know, whenever I have tough times in the last few months, I just, I'm like, just turn on the news. Yeah. We've got it so bloody good. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Our problems are not even problems

People

who dream of problems like that. You know what I mean?

There's always like, we just need to have some

perspective. Just some

 perspective.

Yeah, yeah,

Yep. I

totally agree.

 And you just have to roll with it and ride it.

 So the salon's been awesome.

 Salon's been so good.

 Yeah.

 Like, so good. And you know, we were chatting before you walked in

with your coffees

about the fact that my team is smaller,

 Oh,

 my turnover is down,

 Yep.

 my profitability is up.

 We Literally

just had this

 conversation out. Oh my gosh. And I listened to that episode where you were talking about it and I loved it. it was like, yes, this is, I kind of they actually did me a favor. I optimized Yeah. because I got less people.

They

performing better, they earn more money, they're satisfied. I'm it, it's just

 exactly.

 It was great.

 But you sit in the ego in the beginning where you're like, I must build, like this is what it looks like. I built, I build a built a salon, but people, but building

 doesn't necessarily mean getting bigger.

 But do you think it's because of our past where we were? Obviously with my

family business, so many salon, but even

here, you look up at these sounds mm-hmm. with multiple locations and mul, you know,

and,

 and

 you're like, that's what I need to

achieve.

 Yes. Oh my gosh. I can think of nothing. I would rather do this.

 Me too. I've always said I would never have more than one, but I think you have this, we just spoke about it. Literally, you think you have these, like you have to keep doing this, and

this and then this, and then this, and then this, and then

this. Like that's what success looks like.

And

eventually you

just have to stop and be like, no.

 in

 a

 a hundred years time. I'm no one's, all my shit's gonna be gone. My name's not gonna exist. No one's gonna know who I was or what I did. Like I am what? Right. So like why am I so focused on what I'm building now?

Because all I need to work on is Building a life

that feels really

authentic and beautiful and genuine to me, and raise beautiful kids. Mm-hmm. And just love other people. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I got to this point where I was like, I've been a big part of so many people's journey. Mm-hmm. Why don't I just start giving myself grace

and Yeah.

I love, be grateful for

the va, for the fact that I loved them while they were here and I loved all our time

together and we created amazing memories and we had amazing relationships.

Rather than going,

did I fail all those people?

it's true. And you then start to go,

okay,

well if I really

assess this.

I don't want

all of that.

I just

want this like

life where I can just be in the moment and enjoy it and

enjoy my clientele. Because

at

that point we had to have like 120 to 130 clients a week. Yeah. It's too much.

 Too much to hold. Too much drama, too much people too. and I lost touch with being with

all those people. Yeah.

Which is

what I love.

 Yeah. I ended up hiding sometimes.

 Yeah.

 Sometimes is good. Often.

 because in my office. I hated when someone would would say to me, oh, I go to your salon. And I had no idea

who they were.

 Mm-hmm.

 Like that was just like, 'cause you can't, when you having that volume of people through Yeah,

 absolutely.

 And then all of a sudden

everything

changes. We're down to

like 50 to 60 clients a week and

I know them all. Mm.

and

I know their stories and I'm like getting to really like focus on women that are doing such cool stuff or have gone through so much and I'm just like grateful that these are the people that support me.

Yeah. Yeah. Instead of going, okay, well I needed, I need three times the amount of this just to keep the wheels turning because my wage bill's so high.

 Yeah. And that's where ego comes in, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know? But as you just said, to actually being able to have

conversation

with clients who are not

booked

in with you.

Yes. But you go over and say, Hey Lucy, let's have a chat. You know?

 Yeah. yeah.

 It's nice. And all

the businesses I love going to. That's what happens there. Yes.

 Yeah.

 And you, the

 person that you buy your coffee

 from that

 remembers your name.

 Yeah, Exactly.

Yeah. And it's, it's about,

and

I think that's another whole thing, but it's like, I think our industry, which is amazing, and we love,

we

need to put the focus back on the client clients and the client connection.

You know,

a

lot of people out there and us and social media, it's, it, the focus is becoming so much on becoming that celebrity hairdresser.

 Mm-hmm.

 That we are forgetting the true essence of our job

 is the people we take, care of.

 We

are hairdressers. People come in, feel, look a certain way, Yeah. Yeah. they feel and look a certain way when they walk out.

Yeah. That is our job.

 Yeah.

 and

we

need to

remember that.

 And

the

best

i, the best comments I ever get from clients. is not when It's a fucking

five star review just shoved up on Google. It's when our clients send us a private

message and be like,

I

shed some really heavy stuff today. And I'm like deep,

deeply

grateful

that you guys

just like listened and supported me.

Yeah.

 Or

I get

to

send a

message. I had this the other day with a client who was. Who has just

been through so much

And she

brought in flowers for one of the

girls that's going through something

and she has

gone through a lifetime of stuff. And I just got to listen to her story and I got to message and say, thank you for sharing

that story, story.

Yeah. Beautiful. Like I just

feel in awe

of you.

And

then she

got to feel seen.

Mm.

Like it's all about feeling seen What?

Like that's our job to make other people feel seen when

potentially they have no other touchpoint.

Absolutely.

 Like

that is our job. That's the essence. And so if you are thinking about what your why Is, and I completely relate to this because for a time I was like, I feel like I need to be seen and I wanna be an educator I don't wanna do all this shit. And then I just realized, I was like, I want other people to feel seen. I want other

people to feel heard. I want other

people to like why am I being so ego in my ego and wanting other people to look at this life when Shit was falling down

around me.

I wanna relate to you about the shit that's fallen down.

Yeah.

I

wanna be like, this sucks

That's shit. Do you feel it? True. Lot of shit falling down

 so much? shit.

 So

I, I completely

agree like that is

I wanna be that. Yeah. I want to be known.

I

want,

God

forbid, when something happens to me

for

that place to be filled with people that I touched in here.

 Yeah.

 Yeah.

 Because they truly loved who I, who I was as a person. Yeah. And I did something one day to make them feel

seen.

 It

doesn't take

much.

 It doesn't it doesn't take much.

 It really doesn't.

 No.

 Yeah,

 Yeah.

But just put yourself aside for a second. Making about someone else. You know what I mean? Like that's

what it,

 that that's the, the purpose

of

a service-based bus

business is

to provide a service to humanity.

 Yeah. Yeah.

 And how lucky

able

 do and the greater humanity,

 How lucky.

 I know. It takes us moments to reflect on that and just take and be like, yeah. the

 fact like we can like, touch people. Yeah. And like make them like, you know, we had a client come

in the other night and as she hasn't been, she's been once and I don't think has been back in like three years and she burst into tears as Courtney was

talking to

her about her haircut.

And

no one, none

of us knew what was going on. Right. So like we didn't know what was going on, but I was like, I don't know whether she's got something going on. She's unwell. She needs to cut it. And then Courtney got to bring her to the basin by herself and then she told her that her mom just passed. Aw.

but like,

she walked out just lighter

and Courtney

was able to say to her,

are

you okay if I give you a cuddle? Yeah. And

she was like, I would love that. Like,

we

get to do that. You can't go to a coffee shop and someone offer you a cuddle because you just vented onto them. Yeah.

But some people need to just feel heard and seen and this is the place they get to do it. Yeah. Like, that's an honor.

 It

is. And you know, we all,

we

all have that Like for, for so many of our clients

coming

into the salon, and sitting down is the first time in months someone does something for them, for

 for them

 listens to, them and they don't have to

 do anything. Makes it about them.

 Take My clients sometimes are like, just bring me whatever beverage you

think I should have because

I don't wanna

make any more decisions.

 Yeah. I'm

often like that. In my private life, I was like,

choose

whatever. Do whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be there. I don't wanna make a decision.

 Yep,

 yep.

 Please.

menu. We, I'm

 very

 much Like

 that.

 Yes.

 Or We went out for dinner the other night and we were all like, know What Tiffany? Make all of the options to, I'll eat it

 all

was like why are you. showing Me a menu

 I don't

Yeah.

Not my problem.

 Yeah.

You do that job.

 Just

 gimme a wine. I'm okay. Yeah, No, but it's, it's, it's that, it's that something. Or

 we

 forget how many people actually don't get

 Yeah.

 Touched

Exactly.

 Right. Single moms.

 Yeah.

 Or they get touched out by their kids. Correct. That no one is just like, what can I give you for the next You are here, what do you need? Yeah. What do you need?

 What

 gonna give you Absolutely. Do you wanna lie at the basin?

 Yeah.

 Do you want to not talk? Yeah. Do you want me to find your book?

 Yeah.

 Do you want me to get some headphones? Like what do you need? What, how can I serve you today?

 Yeah.

But we're so focused.

And I think that's where, you know, social media is incredible Mm-hmm. and we all love it and we all use it and it's all helping our, um, businesses and staff Yeah. and all of that.

But

I

think for young hairdressers sometimes it's so tough because they, you know, they come in and all they want to do is be that famous hairdresser, or that

thing,

and they want it now and they want it tomorrow.

And You need to give me all this opportunity to get there as quickly as possible.

I'm

like, mate, just take it down like I am doing what I'm doing at 37. mm There's been a long marathon, slowly getting there and now I can do it with the knowledge and the calmness and most of the times and you know what I mean?

 But it's the same way you look at people like Kim

from

Boho.

Yeah.

 She's 37.

That's what

 I'm mean. Exactly. Her career's taken off a couple of years ago. Literally like it's not calm overnight. It's gonna take time and energy

And she

 worked fucking hard

 for that career. So hard for that

career.

 Yeah.

Like she put Yeah.

The

time and effort into that.

 Yeah.

 let's be honest to deal with all of that too. Oh, exactly. You need maturity.

Yes.

 You need to have

some kind of life under your belt.

 Thick skin.

Thick skin.

 Yeah. It's not easy. No. Like the stuff that she would have, she has to deal with on the other side. Oh God. Like

I

think she's incredible.

'cause

 yeah,

 kudos

to her.

There's

no way I could ever put myself on there and deal with that

because we're people.

pleasing people.

Yeah,

 absolutely. So,

And I just think

she's

Like blazing her own way. But I definitely

agree, like

people need to understand that that is in

her own way,

It's not,

you

can't cut and copy that.

You need to be who you are who, you are, and develop the life that you want, not the life

that someone else has, and not

for the fame reasons that you feel like is going to give you everything. Because I think even a good example of this is Jay from Edwards.

Yeah. He had all of these, salons. same thing. I think you, if you, Yeah, we need to talk to him and Kim, I think they'd be such amazing

guests. So like, oh yeah. hook us up guys. Um, but even with Jay, like you've watched him bu this massive career, but I'm pretty sure he's gone to a point where he is like, it's too much. It's too much. There's too many salons, there's too many

 balls', too much. And he's just refocused and he wanted to go in a different direction with things.

Yes. And so that meant pivoting and change. Yes, yes. And pivoting and changing is not bad.

 And I loved how honest he was about his journey of that.

 Yeah.

 And so, and, and, and he.

You

know, he was speaking once on, on life or you know, on a story Yeah. and he was like, I need to put the

focus back on the client experience. Yeah.

Yep. Because

 that's,

 you know, and I'm like, yeah, that's what we all need to sometimes focus on when we get caught up in these fast trains.

Yeah.

 Is to actually just go back to the basics

and

the foundation of what we do.

 What

is our and why

 we're

doing it

job

it's

 serving other, what is our

job People.

 Yeah.

 not

house health. True.

 I had that conversation

with, um,

so at the moment, my team, which is probably

different to how things were a while ago,

they all have to have their own Instagram account.

Like or social media accounts of some description,

be that TikTok or whatever.

Because I think

it's really important for them to

learn cause they're gonna have to do it. But again, we had our

first run through of checking what everyone's doing. I'm like, who are you talking

to? Mm. Like, what do you mean? Yeah.

It's like

these are just talking to hairdressers that's not getting new clients you talk

to. What is the

purpose of you having this?

To

have people

sit in your chair.

Why are

they gonna

come and sit in your chair when you are just targeting

hairdressers? They're like,

oh.

 shit. I'm

 I'm

like, yeah,

that's

not what it's for.

Yeah.

You

are supposed to be solving problems for people,

so

pick who you want, solve a problem for it and please create me a month's worth of content and then I'll come and check it.

Yeah. 'cause this is not

what

you're doing for, show them what you

 do. Yeah. And How amazing you are at it.

 Like, include your personality, but

you are supposed to be

using

this as

something to help the people who you want to sit in your chair

different if you wanna be an influencer. We have

identified that.

But

um,

yeah, for these babies at the moment when they're foundational learning, it's like,

just

think about

getting

some clients in. Yeah.

 You

also

can't blame them because that grew up with it. That's all they see.

 Yeah.

 So they aspire to, you know, so it's up to us to then just share a bit and just get them on the path.

And that will come and that can come. But this is

what

you need to do right now.

 Also, it's 1%, one

of the, it's

like,

if you look at people like

Jay

and Kim,

they're

1%,

there

is 99 other percent of hairdressers that are doing their thing. So like really focus in on what you want that to look like. Mm-hmm. If you inspire, you are like, I have to get there.

Then

you

need to work out what that looks like. But

 yeah,

 for

everyone else, it's just like, work out what you want Yes. for your life

 and, you know, the, the, the one, but then on that 1%, what their post, which all looks fabulous, is that 1%.

Yes.

 No one on social media sees the other 99 or 80 or whatever percent of how brutal and hard and exhausting and draining and all of that.

That

comes with that.

Yes.

 snippet of fabulous.

Oh, so

 good. I Did that hair.

show and did that event.

Yeah. You

 know, there's

so much which goes into that.

 Yeah.

 So

that's, deto.

they think that that's their lives every single day. all

 yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And

you, yeah, you've gotta think about all the things that go on,

bus.

Like there's a reason why.

For

example, Jay's gotten to that point

and He's like, I need to pivot. This is too much. Yeah. Because for what he wants for his life is now different to what that looked like. Yeah. So people, and I think the coolest thing about that is he's showing people, well, it

didn't serve me, so I'm changing it. And it's okay for people to con to decide their own narrative around what this looks like.

But this is my life Yeah. and I've gotta decide what looks best for me.

 Yeah.

And this is what I'm doing.

 Yeah.

 See that's what I like

about getting older.

 Yeah.

 Yeah.

 It's good, isn't it?

 Isn't it?

 Yeah. I like it.

I

mean, you know, bit tired and stuff, but

 other always

 otherwise, great.

 Gone. I

 I think we, we just we went

to places

 I knew we would though.

 We went to places. Literally

 we

 went.

machine.

 I'm just like, while I'm sitting here I'm like processing, like where do we go? Like

 this

is

why People say to us, so have you got questions?

You guys

 You guys,

are good. And I knew this was going to happen.

That's

why I did not have that coffee. Which like half an hour ago.

 that's

 And that's like when we finished with Mon and she was like, whoa.

Like,

okay,

you guys can just like

 yeah,

 Go.

 go. That's why it's Salon Rising. the podcast works guys. That's why you want to hear it, here

first.

 But it's about, you know, I think it's about being in it together and support each other and listen. for Sure.

and, and and. there's so much we can do for others. Like, we, you know what I mean?

Not just collaborate and chat. Yeah. And because we're all going through the same thing, Mm-hmm. Like

We are all trying to run businesses.

Yeah.

 Manage staff.

Um,

grow

a family,

 embrace

families, do grow a family

Yep.

 and deal with life every single day.

Yeah.

 And you know, like we are sitting here right now chatting, having the great time.

When

we look at our phones, we dunno, anything could have happened.

 Anything could have happened.

 I'm like, yeah, it happened in the last podcast. I was like, Jen, this just happened. I need to go deal with it. She's like, all right. Like

 everyone

 is feeling it behind the scenes. Yeah. And it's when you get together with other people, like I can, I walked in here on my ass today 'cause I was so dead tied and there's so much going on.

But then when

you do these conversations, you're like, ugh.

Like I'm not alone.

I'm not alone. Everybody's feeling it. Like Yeah.

And everybody's listening to this right now, being like

same,

same,

same, same, same. And it doesn't matter whether you've been, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're Kim or you're starting out, Mm-hmm. like

it's, yeah,

she's still feeling the same things we all feel Yeah. and every salon, it's like sitting down when we sat down with Mon and sitting down with you, like you've got these like big.

Beautiful salons and careers and everything, but everybody still feels the same. Behind. Yeah. Everyone's still everybody's still got stuff.

Everyone's still feeling like they're failings. Everyone still

feeling like

some

days are good and some days are bad. And then we're dealing with life on the other side of it.

Like it's, everyone has got their stuff. But you know, when we have

conversations like this, it's just about making people feel seen, which is

exactly what it is. When we have salons

like the client experience, it's like letting it's, people feel seen in this. Making

people feel seen.

 I think it was you two, I think it was your

wrapping

up last year.

episodes.

 So funny.

We literally just did our wrapping up this year. episode this morning. Yeah. And we, We were like, we needed to listen back to that

we

can't remember what it was. Yeah, please tell us.

 Well, it was, Uh, what I remember from it yeah, was very much your. one shit, your rough patch, you know, personally and, and the salon and the team changes and letting go.

You know what I mean? And I remember that day when I popped that on in the car is exactly the day I needed that. I needed that. Yeah,

I

needed that because you guys were a bit like,

it's

gonna be okay.

 You

 You know what

 I mean? We literally just had that conversation again. like Yeah, we don't know what the

next year's gonna bring. Yeah.

We dunno what the next day's gonna bring. We dunno what my phone

says right now. Like,

yeah, we

don't know what this looks like and we have just

gotta be okay with the fact that we just keep rolling with

it. And

to

have really good humans around you that you

can ring and be like, I'm struggling. I need a

conversation.

And

I

think more of that needs to happen in our industry. Like we met you in Budapest and then we were just like obsessed. Like we're all just in love. Yeah. We just wanted to spend the rest of the time together.

 We, We

did not bother with Surface. We went

straight

 straight.

It was like a podcast in Budapest.

 I don't, I don't know. It is funny because I saw bit of you guys. on Instagram before Budapest. And I just

knew.

 I'm

 gonna lie, I I just knew we're on the same waylen and when we met each other in Budapest. Um, it just clicked and was, it was just instant.

 It really was. And it was like no one else existed. Like it was just like this bubble of this conversation I know. and every event we were together, like we just kept drawing back together.

But,

you

know,

 it

was my favorite bubble.

 It was the best bubble.

 I

 know.

 Love that bubble.

 I didn't really want anyone else in the bubble.

 It's okay.

So, but we

 had our, we met it very clear. We had our bubble.

 no,

 no, we,

 left.

um, but I just think, yeah, it's just these conversations, the rawness

of it. Yeah.

To just, everyone's feeling it. Yeah. Everyone's doing it. You know,

and the, again, that's why we, the

whole point of the podcast

is for people to share their stories and be like, this is what I walked through.

you know, I may, not and you're gonna be

okay, but you, like.

You explaining the last

two

years is exactly how I felt. Right. In different circumstances. Yeah. '

 cause it doesn't have to be

the exact same circumstance. No.

You can still have those same feelings.

Yes.

 You know, and

understand that journey, even if it's not exactly the same.

 Yes. And

just like those little nuggets

of like wisdom where you're like, thank you. I need it.

every time we do the podcast, I walk away that day

going,

I

 I needed that today.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. Like this conversation, oh, I needed that today. I

needed to like talk through that and

listen to that.

Because as you said, it's

those things that make you go, oh,

like

Rich said before, like, we

need to do an educational podcast.

I'm Like every, every episode is an educational podcast for somebody.

Mm. Yeah.

 Because even for me, that was mine today and that client experience and really connecting back in, and we know these things. but sometimes we just need someone else to say it as well, to be like, yes. Yeah.

 And sometimes you need to hear it back to

yourself to be like, oh, that's right.

 Yeah.

 Yeah. That's what my job has.

 And you know, it's sometimes not just about just sitting down telling

everyone how fabulous absolutely everything is.

we have a lot of that out there. Yeah. It's about the realness and the real conversation. Yes. And opening up And

be like, Hey, it's actually okay. Like

this

is, this is it?

 Yeah.

 yeah. yeah. And you guys do that so well.

 Right?

Cue the ukuleles,

 Do I

cry again.

 Get

 the bagpipes out.

 No,

 that, that's,

that's not

enough

 Christina

struggle.

 say.

 I

love that song, by the way. Very empowering.

Very

empowering.

No, but yeah, that's not enough buildup at the moment.

Come and cry.

 Um,

I feel like we've touched on so many nuggets and

I'm so sad that we have to

wrap up

for today.

We always know when Richard starts to hover the pace cut, pace uch

 shut up.

We

could, we could keep going. Yeah. Like, you Know what I mean? For Sure.

You go a bit like, do I raise another serious topic? Because that, that will,

add half an hour to it. There's

 there's

 a few more under the belt.

 That

just means there needs to be an episode two. Yeah. And we like those ones. We love those. Um, but yeah, long time in the making. But thank you so much. No, Thank you for coming up and sharing and just,

 I loved it

 being the

best human that you are.

We're so grateful that we sat down for goulash 18 months

 ago. Would've best.

 Look where

 we are now. No, Thank you too for, for doing this and for making it so

comfortable

and

enjoyable. So really appreciate it.

We

 love you. We

love you. love you. guys.

  📍 Okay guys, thanks so much for watching and we'll be back with another episode soon.